Practice Over Perfection: Liz Kovarsky on Reimagining Creativity & Wellness

Lisa Belisle: Hello, I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle, and you are listening to or watching Radio Maine, our video podcast, where we explore and celebrate creativity and the human spirit. We're sponsored by the Portland Art Gallery in Portland, Maine. And today I have with me Liz Kovarsky who is the founder of the Electric Cottage Collective, which is located in Brunswick, Maine. And I'm sure that you will be, as a listener or a watcher, as intrigued as I was to hear about the Electric Cottage Collective. So thanks for coming in today, Liz.

Liz Kovarsky: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

Lisa Belisle: I'm excited too. I think you came as a referral from one of my dear friends who said, "You really should see what this person is doing." My friend is a yoga instructor and just generally is aware of what's going on in the state. And she said, "This is a unique thing that's going on in Brunswick, so you should talk to Liz." And I said, "I would love to learn more about this." So would you mind giving me a little background? Let's start with the Electric Cottage Collective.

Liz Kovarsky: Sure. What to say? So many things to say. Electric Cottage Collective is a space in Brunswick, 82 Pleasant Street. And what we do there is we call it creative coworking and arts and wellness all in one space. And it was born from a few different things, but the short story of it is that I'm a social worker, I'm an artist, I'm a teacher, and I saw the need in that region in particular for more creative spaces, more community spaces. Almost every town in Maine has some type of wellness aspect, but I think the interesting thing to me is how we separate our head from our body so much. So to bring all of those things into one space, one embodied space, because as people, we are whole people, and to be able to have all those things in one place felt really important to me.

Lisa Belisle: Well, I absolutely agree with you. And I think particularly in this digital age where people are interacting a lot more on, we'll call it intellectual levels, I had the sense early on as a doctor about myself that I felt like I was essentially a head on a stick. I was interacting and I had thoughts and I learned a lot, and that wasn't a comfortable feeling for me. It was this feeling of sort of disembodiment. My head felt great, but I was like, "Well, where's the rest of me?" And I know this happened to me personally. Did this happen to you? Is that why you felt like this was an important next step in your own personal journey?

Liz Kovarsky: Sure. Yeah. It has happened to me. I've seen it happen to lots of people also. I come from a family of, my mom's a social worker, my dad's a professor, so I'm a pretty good mix of them and then the world around me. He's a super intellectual person and I gleaned a bunch of that growing up, luckily, fortunately. But because of that and because of the world around us, the culture that we live in, we prioritize a lot of hyper intellectualization rather than, can you just be present with what is in this moment instead of thinking all the time about how am I presenting myself? What do I look like? What are they thinking of me? Just overthinking every single interaction. So there's that piece. And then there's the whole fact that when we go to school, we're asked to sit in a chair and don't move and you're bad if you move.

But all we really want to do usually is move, get up out of the chair, do something with our bodies. And so I went to almost too much school and I got pretty far, got my graduate degree, and had found that it was really hard for me. I had taken a break between my undergraduate and graduate degree by almost 10 years. And I got back to school and I was like, "Oh no, I have to sit in a chair. This is so hard." And had a really strong, luckily, strong embodiment practice of dance and yoga and mindfulness and meditation, and had found, sitting in a classroom, I was so stimulated intellectually. I loved that. My peers were amazing. My professors were great. I was learning really cool things in school for social work, and I just felt so disconnected in another way. I felt like, where am I in time and space?

I would come home at the end of the day and be like, "What just happened? Who am I? Where am I?" Yeah, so that's maybe an answer to your question.

Lisa Belisle: Well, I think I can relate to what you're saying because, like you, I also have sat in a lot of classrooms and part of the reason I've done it is because I actually like it. I like learning and I like being with other people who like to learn. I like learning from people who like to teach. So all of those things are really good, and also, if the learning kind of stops at above your heart, then where do things actually get integrated? And then it's not even the learning so much for me as the practice of the learnings. So you are a social worker, and as a physician, it also is like you're dealing with people's bodies, but you're also dealing with their selves, their souls, their spirits. And if you can't connect with yourself that way, then how do you help other people to connect with themselves that way? That was the feeling that I had anyway.

Liz Kovarsky: That's a really good question. And I think I have a really long answer that I'll try to make not too long. At least for the profession of social work, I think about this a lot. Historically, it was more of a peer led mutual aid, like we're doing this with each other, not for someone else who is in a different position than us, for whatever reason. And throughout time, that profession has really changed. The medicalization of it, because it's become so clinical, because that's the only way you can get paid a lot of the time. You know this as a doctor.

And so the disconnect from mind and body, I think, has really stemmed from that actually, because we have hyper intellectualized supporting our communities. Why? Because that's how you get paid. And so that's another huge aspect of what I'm trying to do. I don't know the right term for it in the moment, but I think you'll get the gist of what I'm saying. Can we create a space where we still get to learn together in our minds, but in our bodies we get to practice together? We get to do all these beautiful embodiment practices that bring us back to the present moment instead of some future moment or something in the past, where we can make it accessible. And so you don't have to have a college degree. You don't have to be able to afford a university.

We have a lot of sliding scale and free stuff. We have a lot of work exchange stuff. So trying to make these practices accessible in a bunch of different ways, and also the cultural aspect of how do we bring these practices that come from collectivist cultures into a Western culture without overcharging or stigmatizing or making people feel unwelcome in some way. So there's a lot there, but I'm trying to help bring those ideas forward, I think, in what I'm doing.

Lisa Belisle: So the idea of practicing is to me really powerful because it's kind of acknowledging that we're all kind of in an ongoing state of existence and possibly evolution, but at the very least, existence. And we're all just practicing. We're practicing showing up as humans. If any of us could at any point claim that we are 100% perfect at whatever it is that we attempted to do, then we probably should stop. We should just stop doing that, because that's just the nature of being human, is that you continue to draw breath. And so I like this idea that you're providing access to a way for people to really experience this reintegration of mind, body, spirit, irrespective of people's backgrounds, because you're respecting them as humans, which I don't think always happens in medicine generally.

Liz Kovarsky: Yeah, probably not. Probably not in every profession. And the idea of practice over perfect could go really deep. I feel like that could be a conversation that goes on for hours, but I do think it's really important to talk about, because we also live in this space where it's like, if you're not perfect at something, and I feel like with the art gallery you probably come across this too, if you're not perfect at something, don't share it. I don't want to hear it if you're not perfect at it. If you're not perfect at something, you can't be a teacher. You can't teach a subject if you're not perfect at it. You're not the authority on it if you're not perfect at it. And I'm thinking about that a lot right now because we're starting to offer some teacher trainings for specific things.

Dance cardio teacher training, and this workshop called The Vibe is a Lie, and it's about kind of shifting the narrative behind what it means to be a good yoga teacher. And this idea of perfection, I think, is really important to look at where that comes from. And I should back up and say, before I say all of these things, that none of these thoughts are actually my own. I've done a lot of reading and studying specifically of black feminist thought and liberation thinkers and practitioners, back to that word of practice. And a lot of them talk about the idea of perfectionism being like a white supremacy culture ideology. And for us to be able to slow down and see that and say, okay, I'm going to come to all of this imperfectly.

And by the way, everything we do at Electric Cottage Collective is imperfect. Everything I do, I think everything most of us do. And I think if you think you're perfect at it, it's probably time to check in with the people around you and have a little reflection. Yeah, that feels like a sticky point to me. But the idea of practice, I really love the idea of bringing together a community of practice so that we're holding ourselves accountable to learning together and having people to reflect with, reflect back to us, learning how to take constructive feedback. Oh, that's huge. That's really huge and so hard for so many of us because we've never had that without shutting down.

Lisa Belisle: Do you think that part of the reason it's hard to take feedback is because there is an art to giving and also receiving feedback, and maybe not even an art, maybe it's like a skill or a craft, and it's not necessarily something that everybody has had access to over the course of their lives? So people will kind of plunder into the space and, without meaning to, offer feedback that just shuts things down. And this is a question. I don't know the answer to this.

Liz Kovarsky: That's a really good question. It's fun that you're bringing this up. I've had some conversations about this recently. I think as a younger person, especially when I was an edgy teenager, like so cool, I had this inclination to give unwarranted feedback, and I think that's the whole thing. Are we asking permission? Like, "Are you ready for that? Do you want that? Do you want people to be telling you how things are landing for them when you're offering them?" You really have to be ready and it's a lot of ego work probably.

And it's really hard to hear sometimes, and it has to be from folks that, that's the idea of a community of practice. It has to be from folks that have your best interests in mind. I'm not going to seriously take feedback about Electric Cottage Collective from someone who's never stepped foot into the space. There's no point, right? What are they trying to do? What are their intentions? What are you holding me accountable for? I think that's the question. But I love the idea of the community because it's like we've got relationships with one another. I think that's probably the big piece, is who are we in relationship to one another? So it is really relational. Giving feedback too is such a good practice, like what you just said. Do I care enough about what you're bringing into the world and what you're letting yourself be vulnerable to, to say what I think about what you're doing so that you can make it better or grow or whatever my intention is?

Lisa Belisle: Well, as you're talking, it's bringing up for me this idea of trust, and that I've taken some of the harshest feedback over the years from some of the people that I have trusted and respected the most, and learned so much as a result. And it has led to kind of an ongoing appreciation on my part for the person that was willing to provide that feedback. But it did require that trust, and it did require me to feel as if it wasn't being done in a way to take me out. It really was being done in a way so that I would continue to approach the world differently. And so I think that that trust piece is really critical, and especially in this very fast paced world, and I can only speak for medicine because that's my field professionally. In this very fast paced world, building that kind of trusting relationship and entering into a situation where you're going to be possibly offering somebody something that they do not really want to hear, even though they're showing up across from you, that is really tough, to know that somebody cares about you and you've barely met them, or you meet them once and then they're off to a different doctor. That's an interesting conundrum, I think.

Liz Kovarsky: I think so too. And you're making me think of a couple things and I don't want to forget either of them, so I'm going to say them so that they're in the parking lot for us to come back to. So one of them is that idea of feedback and trust as an artist, and then feedback and trust as a person who has to work within systems like medical systems. Those systems, as we all know, are so difficult to make connections with your providers, right? You're given 10, 15, 20 minutes to be with a patient or your client, whatever you call them, and how could you build enough relationship and trust to do that? And that's actually one of the reasons why I decided not to become a therapist, because the structure that we have makes it almost impossible to build those relationships unless you're able to build them differently.

You just can't work within the systems that already exist very easily, I think. So there's that piece, and I think it's really interesting and important to keep in mind, how can I either work within and against this one system by building different systems to create that relationship building and the trust and the space to do that, or create my own thing outside of it and hope for the best without the support of the big systems that are already in place, right? And then I think about, that's like one idea. And then I was also thinking, when you were talking about that, about how that really does relate to being an artist also, and something I do want to come back to about Electric Cottage. I went to school as an undergrad to become an art teacher. So fun, such a cool experience.

I loved every second of that. They were like, "You have to make art all day every day." And I was like, "Oh no, worst nightmare." It was the best thing ever that I could be asked of. And then I leave school and I go to teach and I'm also an artist at the same time. And so I'm making art, and then I decide I don't necessarily want to work in the public schools. So I work in afterschool programs and am an artist and doing some odd jobs, and maybe start thinking, maybe I can make a living off of just being an artist. And it turns out that for me and for many artists, not all of us, but for many of us, it kind of takes the joy out of creating. When you have to do it for a living, you're making things that you know will be sellable.

And for me, it kind of took the joy out of it because it took all of the freaky weird stuff that I wanted to express out of the making process, because I'm like, "Well, no one's going to want to buy that." Which I could have been in my own way, whatever. But having that experience did lead me to making sure that what we're offering at Electric Cottage Collective is less about the product and more about the process of making. What is it that brings you release or joy or presence about making, being creative, making visual arts or other arts? We do dance and music also, but what is it about that that you love, and can you keep practicing that and not worrying? So we have things like a craft club or a cheap art club, and it's really the idea of, what do you have around you, make something, how was that for you?

Not that I don't love the idea. I used to work in a gallery also when I was in college, and I love the idea of these big, special, beautiful things that people get to take home. There's magic in that also. But for me right now, that idea of the community of practice around, can we just keep making things, let's not get burdened by what happens in the end.

Lisa Belisle: I agree with you. I think having spoken to many artists over time, it is a really delicate balance, because if you're truly only doing something to make money, that's not very joyful. And yet a lot of people who are not artists have to do that, because you do it to make money. I think there is a balance. This is my personal opinion, because I've interviewed so many artists and I work with the Portland Art Gallery so closely, and I think the artists support one another. I think our staff tries to support those artists, and those artists are ones though, to your point, that have shown up and said, "This is what I want to do right now. I want to make art and I want to make a living making art." And that does require kind of a specific mindset, and I think it's valuable, and also what you're describing is also equally valuable.

Like, I want to find joy in being creative, and if nothing ever sells, then I still have the joy from that. There's still a value in doing that, because it doesn't always come down to somebody's giving me a dollar for whatever it is.

Liz Kovarsky: And that brings us to the next thing I think we should talk about. I love that. I feel like this could be a really meandering conversation, but it is bringing me back to all the things that I think I'm trying to imbue into Electric Cottage Collective. The idea of being able to be an anti-capitalist business owner has been super important to me from the beginning, and this whole journey that I went on of making art and then being like, "I don't want to make art anymore because there's no joy left in it." That was because of capitalism, because of course we all have to make a living, but being able to center different values other than how much money can I make from this? So maybe thinking about, how connected can I get to my community? How much joy can I find? Can I think collectively instead of individually?

I'm trying to bring all of those questions to the forefront with everything that we're doing there. So we're doing the art piece, we're doing the coworking piece, and we're also doing the wellness piece, and I don't see them as separate. I do see them as all integrated. I was privileged enough to be able to take an art therapy class also in college, and think a lot about how we don't talk about art as wellness as much as we should be. I think there's some cool organizations in Maine doing that, but I don't think we talk about it in mainstream culture enough, and we certainly don't value it monetarily enough in mainstream culture. So that's another piece that I'm trying to bring forward. Taking an art class will probably give you some of the same experiences or sensations as taking a yoga class. Going to dance class will probably do something similar, going to a singing group.

There's a lot of similarities that happen in your brain, like chemically, but then also in your felt experience. And to me, it's all about being connected to your body, being connected to each other, and seeing what happens when we're able to keep practicing that together, like that idea of practice I think is good to keep coming back to.

Lisa Belisle: I think it's really important that you're offering a different model for this, because it is true that, well, in my opinion, I agree with what you're saying about this idea that different things should be valued, not just money. And this can turn into and feed into this idea of perfectionism. And so if perfect equals money and then imperfect equals no money, then what happens if you can't be perfect, and if you have no money, then what happens when you can't feed your hamster or put a roof over your head? So that's a big thing. And I think what we value and what we've put forward as what we value, I'm thinking of some very specific examples in my own life where people that I wasn't related to, they were colleagues of mine, but essentially worked themselves to death at an early age, like to death.

And it was such a powerful thing for me to be alongside, because what it said to me was, "This person was very talented. These people were very talented at what they did." I saw the stress on them that occurred day after day after day after day. And it was like, again, poor hamster. We're bringing the hamster into the conversation, but it got to a place where it didn't seem like it was possible to stop. And was it money? Was it success? I don't really know. But if you value that, that's fine, but does it foreshorten your life, and is it worth it? And I don't know the answer. Maybe it is. Maybe it is okay, if you think, "I love this job, I'm really good at it. I'm going to keep doing it, but I'm going to die when I'm 50."

Liz Kovarsky: Yeah. I think it's okay. Whatever you're doing is okay, first of all, because, I cannot remember who I learned this from, but there's this whole motto I keep trying to come back to, and it's, be tough on systems and soft on individuals. And just because the individuals have subscribed to the idea that money equals good, money equals success, money equals worth or value, I forget what your equation was, but those are the ones I'm thinking of. I think it's okay. I don't want to live like that though. And even in a profession like social work, which I think some of us would assume, or we see a lot of the workers in social work or in nonprofits in general have this idea like, "If I work harder, I'll save more people." Probably doctors feel that way too, right?

And all kinds of folks. If I work harder, I'll be better, I'll be okay, I'll be good, I'll have value, I will matter, I will belong. Whatever the thing is that you're feeling or thinking, consciously or unconsciously, I think is valid because this is what we're being told by capitalism, that if you work harder, you're going to get whatever the thing is that you want or need, house, clothes, food, car, or whatever. But to me, freedom, or the idea of liberation, is being able to know that that's happening to you, see outside of that, begin to question that, and then, how can I live in a way that's more in line with a different value? And that to me is truly being anti-capitalist and truly having a liberation framework of, yes, I have to live under capitalism, we all do in the West, but there are ways for us to do it differently.

So, for instance, I graduated from grad school in 2020 with my Masters of Social Work. I was fortunate enough to be able to get a remote job at that time. It was an interesting time to graduate. And then I hopped around to different jobs. I've had five different social work jobs since then because I keep wondering, when am I going to find the one where they actually value the workers and allow for things like enough vacation time, enough pay, enough supervision, they call it supervision in social work, where someone who's been at it longer than you supports you along the way, enough adequate supervision, and those people also being supported enough to feel at the end of the day like you can go home and not think about what happened at work and actually do the rest of your life and have the energy to do the things, the practices that you want to do, like the creative practices or the embodiment practices that you need to do really to be a whole person. I keep wondering, where is that job?

And it's still a question. I still work full time on top of Electric Cottage for the moment, but I wonder about it. And I've had moments that I thought were burnout, and then I learned about something called moral injury. I'm not sure if you've ever heard about it.

And realized I had to abruptly take some time off because I felt like I couldn't keep going, and I don't want to live in that way. And that was another reason for starting this space, because I really love a lot of the social work ethics and values. I think they're really beautiful, but I think the way that we've built the profession, the systems that we work within, are not life giving. And not just for the workers, but also for the people who are receiving the services. And that whole paradigm of the workers and the people receiving the services even is something I have questions about. So to me, I want to create a space where I'm taking those values and ethics and morals from social work and also from yoga. Those are really in line with each other if we look at them. They're almost the same, a lot of them. And bring them into a community space so that we can do things that are more like peer support and mutual aid rather than the hierarchy of, "I have the job and I'm serving you."

That does a lot to communities that I think is not great, and to our relationships with each other as workers and as the people that we're serving. Yeah, that meandered a little bit, but I think it was an important thing to say.

Lisa Belisle: This idea of the system versus the individual, and really just being realistic about what the product of the system is, and also having compassion and empathy with regard to the individual, because if there's only one system or it's the dominant system, and you have an individual who's just trying to make their way in the world, then by its very nature it's challenging to show up. And if you're trained as a social worker and this is the system where most people are employed, you have to make money somehow and that hamster does not feed itself. So I think that's what I go back and forth on. And as somebody who's been working with this idea for more than three decades now in medicine, because I've seen the systems evolve around medicine, I've seen what has happened as a result with patients, with all kinds of different, what I hate calling providers, but people who work within medicine, whether you're a social worker, whether you're a doctor, whether you're a nurse practitioner, and it's interesting.

That's the best word I can come up with, because if I went in a really negative direction, I could really get very sad about it. I also know that if you're somebody and you've got three kids and they all need to go to college and that hamster is still waiting in the corner for its food, you've got the roof over your head, how do we maintain our ability to be honest with ourselves about the results of the system, work within the system, but also be kind of not completely buying into everything, and also keeping ourselves and the people around us healthy?

Liz Kovarsky: Yeah. That's the impossible question of capitalism. It's like, "Okay, I guess I'll just keep doing it because I don't really know what else to do." But I think the idea of having the question at the front of your mind in and of itself is part of it. And it's awareness building and having these conversations. And I'm always checking in with myself and with the people around me, and I'm not necessarily perfect at it either. And I don't think any of us are, figuring out, am I working too much because that's how I was trained? Am I prioritizing the needs of what's happening at work over my own physical wellbeing? Usually, yeah, I have to. How do I get enough sleep and cook my own meals and pay my own bills? All the things. How do I do all of those things?

And a lot of it comes back to the hyper individualism of, well, I have to move out of my parents' house when I'm 18, which I did. I have to find a place to live, and maybe it's by myself or just with my one partner, and not thinking about, well, because we're brought up in this culture, not thinking about, "Oh, well, what if we did things a little bit more collectivist?" We wouldn't have so much of that stress and burden. And so I think staying open to the ideas that we see around us, people living in different ways, and keeping questioning those things, like, "Am I working myself really hard, and how do I not be hard on myself and judge myself for doing that?" Remembering that I was just brought up in this world and I was taking in my surroundings and so I'm acting accordingly.

It's just how we're brought up. So yeah, I don't think there's one answer to that question either. I think there's many answers to it that we see all around us. We've got people who are starting to live in these smaller intentional communities of multiple people living together to ease the stress of the cost of living. And that's one thing to think about, and sort of undoing the idea of a lot of these capitalist values. I think just keep questioning it and figuring out other ways. There's an artist somewhere in the Midcoast, I don't remember where she is, but she has these, you may have seen them, she's a printmaker. She has these beautiful posters that say another world is possible. And I see those all over the place, and I started looking up, "I wonder if this was an idea that they had or if they found it from somewhere else." And there are readings about it, and the whole idea is to keep questioning, is there another world that's possible?

What is this other world? Can we create different models even on a really small scale? I feel like that's really important to figure out, is this sustainable for me and my community? And then also to model it for others, to be like, "Hey, look at the thing. We can do the thing." So I think those are some of the answers.

Lisa Belisle: Well, I haven't found any other answer for myself personally than to just show up and keep figuring it out as I go along. This is just me speaking for myself, whether I'm talking about my work as a doctor or in this space or my work as a parent, for goodness sake. And it is interesting, the more I circle the planet in years, the more I realize, there's not a path. There's just whatever path you choose. And exactly as you said, you pick a path, you move forward, you kind of work through the path that you're on, you acknowledge it may not be the right path, you might choose a different one, and that's okay.

And having other people, and they're going to do the same thing kind of alongside you. So that's what I'm really interested to see with the Electric Cottage Collective, how all the different things you're learning, and it sounds like you're somewhat early on in this process, but I suspect there's lots of learnings to come.

Liz Kovarsky: Thank you. I think so. I hope so. We've been open for a little over a year, so it is new. And I love that you brought up, we'll see what happens, because all of it from the beginning was kind of an experiment. I had a plan and ideas, and obviously I'm a talker, so you know there's just stuff happening up here, but it's an experiment to see what is possible and what we can make together and what we learn together along the way. And yeah, so far it's been really fun and really life giving and energizing and feels good. So we're going to keep going.

Lisa Belisle: Well, I will keep paying attention and kind of understanding. And clearly because your name was brought to me by somebody that has had a connection, I guess, with the Electric Cottage Collective, I'll keep my eyes and ears open, because I do believe that there is another world that is possible, so whatever that looks like, I don't know, but I'm glad you're working on it.

Liz Kovarsky: Oh, thanks. Thank you. Yeah. I hope you come by sometime. It'd be great to have you in the space.

Lisa Belisle: Absolutely. I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle and you've been listening to or watching Radio Maine, where we explore and celebrate creativity and the human spirit. We are sponsored by the Portland Art Gallery in Portland, Maine. Today I've been speaking with Liz Kovarsky, who is the founder, although I know you're hesitant to use that title, but coordinator of the Electric Cottage Collective, whatever the title is. But also just a rich tapestry of an individual. So if you're watching or listening, I encourage you to connect in with the Electric Cottage Collective and maybe go into the space itself to learn more. And I will be fascinated to continue to stay connected myself with you. So thanks for coming in today.

Liz Kovarsky: Thanks so much. You're making me blush.

Lisa Belisle: Oh, good. Well, never the intention.

Liz Kovarsky: Thank you.

Lisa Belisle: You're very welcome. Appreciate it.