Photographer + Artist: Margot Hartford

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Hello, I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to or watching our video podcast Radio Maine in which we explore and celebrate creativity and the human spirit. We are sponsored by the Portland Art Gallery in Portland, Maine, and today we have with us a recent addition to the Portland Art Gallery roster, and that is artist Margot Hartford. Thanks for joining us today.

Margot Hartford: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So I love that you have done art in many different ways, starting I think primarily with photography, although maybe you can tell me early on in your life, perhaps you were, I don't know, creating art out of mud and sticks and things like that as a small child, but you've been an artist for a very long time.

Margot Hartford: Well, it's interesting because when I was in school, friends of mine took art, which I never took, and I never thought of art as being something that I would be doing. But I did get into photography pretty young and became a photographer full-time and became a commercial photographer, which some people could debate whether or not that's art. And so after being a little bit tired of the commercial world, I ended up then really exploring art. And you're right, I've done almost everything. I've tried collage, I tried painting, I've played with assemblage, you name it, I've tried it. And I really enjoyed that exploration. It was great. And I'd say that it was the beginning of me calling myself an artist.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I actually love the idea that you never took art classes because I do think that some people consider art to be perhaps less accessible if they don't know enough about art or if they've never taken an art class and they can't be an artist, therefore, if they don't follow a traditional path. But talk to me about why a commercial photographer wouldn't be considered an artist.

Margot Hartford: Oh, that is a good question for debate. I'm not sure. Well, I think that even some people don't think photography, even if it's fine art photography, is art. So that could go into a deep dive.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Fascinating. Well, we don't have to talk about that today because I'm not going to ask you to represent all of photography or commercial photography.

Margot Hartford: Perfect. Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: But I do think it does open up the question, if we decide that something is or isn't on the side of art as defined, isn't that also a way to block people from experiencing either creating or enjoying art?

Margot Hartford: Definitely, yeah, you definitely don't need any more roadblocks. But also I think not having a formal education is an advantage in some ways. And then it's also interesting because I did study photography and film, and not at the time thinking, oh, this is an artistic endeavor, but thinking, oh, maybe I could get some work that I would really enjoy from this kind of studying. And later on when I did start to do this exploration in fine art, it really came in handy, all of that training, because you're still learning about composition and color and light. These things you take for granted because as a photographer they start to slowly make sense and become kind of easy. But now that I am doing fine art, I can see every day how it comes in handy.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: You've just described the advantage of having training, but you also said there's an advantage to perhaps not having training. And what did you find to not having training to having that be an advantage?

Margot Hartford: Well, I think if you have maybe too formal an education in say painting or drawing, I have a feeling that could be an artistic block, and not having that makes me feel very free. I can do whatever I want with paint. I can do whatever I want with paper because there are no rules. And it's interesting because I taught photography for a long time at the college in San Francisco and I would tell people, you have to learn the rules and then break them. Because the problem is a lot of students come in and they just start to wildly shoot. They don't understand exposure and they don't understand some simple things about light. And I say that will be a detriment later. So really just learn the rules and then start to break them. So I'm kind of contradicting myself because in some ways, knowing the rules has an advantage, in some ways being free is a good way to start too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Yeah, I think I can also see it both ways where it's good to have models that have been built by people who have experience over the years, but if you go in and you're locked into the model, then it's only going to take you so far. So you have to be able to balance both of those things.

Margot Hartford: Correct. Exactly. Then after all of that, you have to find your own voice. So you're looking at things that are traditionally taught about that medium and then you're looking at what you like. It makes the whole process really fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, talk to me about that because I know that you've also done, you teach encaustics workshops and you teach image transfer, and so you're both exploring and also teaching. And I have to admit, I don't know that much about image transfer, but I think encaustics and image transfer are not necessarily very similar.

Margot Hartford: Correct. They are totally different things. Image transfer is a bit of a catchall term, to transfer an image onto whatever substrate, or it could be a piece of pottery, but the way you do it is very different based on what you're transferring it onto. So I do teach an encaustic class, which is working with hot wax, and you can transfer something quite easily onto the warm wax because it's warm. It has a lot of qualities that make the transfer simple. So you take a piece of paper, you press it pretty much onto the wax, and then you rub off the paper, and then what's left is this really great little transfer. So I'd been teaching that for a couple of years, and I was also at the same time doing photography and I was trying to figure out, well, how can I use my photography in a new way, because a photograph on its own is one thing, but I really just wanted to push it and see what else I could do.

And so I started to look on YouTube for image transfer, little tips and tricks and processes. And I found a process where you print a photograph onto a piece of acetate, you just use your inkjet printer, and you put a solution down on the board, you can put it on paper, it'll go onto glass and plexiglass as well. And then you put this piece of printed acetate onto the substrate or onto the board, and you wait for a few minutes and you peel it off. And amazingly, a hundred percent of whatever that image is that was just floating around on that piece of acetate comes right off on the board. And when I discovered that, it was like these little bells went off. And so I was thrilled. And that's what I've been working on ever since, and I've been taking quite a long time to perfect how to do that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: That's so fascinating because this exploration that you're describing, and knowing that you want to do something that is artistic, but you're trying to find the right thing at the right time that resonates with you, there's a leap of faith that you're taking that you will get to a place and those bells will go off.

Margot Hartford: Correct. And if they don't, I think you just zig or zag and you try something else. And I think that that's what artists do every day. I just think that they continue to either push it and they might hit a dead end, and then they just turn around and go right back into something else. So yeah, I think we're really lucky to be able to do that every day. It's been really fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So the piece that, you and I were both at the opening last night and our friend Bibby was there. She was one of the artists that was featured, and your piece that was on the wall was a woman, which actually we don't really know whether it's a woman or not, but it was a figure holding balloons, and it turns out that this is actually Bibby and it happens to be the one that was chosen. But I love this piece that you've created because it's colorful. There's this sense of the unknown, but in a really playful way. So would you explore with me a little bit, what has caused you to follow that path of creating images like that, which I think you've told me are women or people that are in your studio?

Margot Hartford: Oh, more or less. So I have this commercial background where I really did concentrate on photographing lifestyle, so people doing things, and lifestyle also usually denotes colorful because you have to look happy and buoyant. And so I was trying to figure out how can I use that skillset and do a series that would intrigue me? And I always felt if I were to purchase a piece of art, I don't know if I'd want somebody else's face. So you see these beautiful paintings of a child, and I just think, I don't know if I'd want to live with a child that wasn't my own. So I thought, how can I approach photographing women and not showing their face? And how can I do it in a number of different ways where it doesn't start to look really repetitive? And also the trick is to make them still look powerful and still look capable. And that was my goal. And so over a couple of months I recruited my friends, I recruited artists in the building. I put them in sometimes just really plain little dresses. Sometimes they brought something to wear, and I did a bunch of ideas that I had come up with, and I ended up with 45 in this series. And it's just all different ways to portray a woman who still is strong and vibrant. And then I ended up having a lot of really great saturated and rich colors.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: One of the things that you've talked about is some of the things from your childhood that are coming forward for you. And the reason that this isn't linked into what you just said is because you're talking about vibrancy and color and actually joy to some extent, but I know that you have recently done some work with photographing fairs, and also you've mentioned that some images are coming up from your childhood, maybe hula hoops and other things. So talk to me about that.

Margot Hartford: So when I'm looking for subject matter, I am drawn to certain things. And it wasn't until I looked back at the series I've been working on in terms of photography. So one of them is the women that are dressed pretty plainly, and I realized they're dressed in kind of 1950s, I will call them a house dress, where women used to just wear kind of a plain feminine little dress. And after that series, I did a series of women in vintage bathing suits, and still that vintage look, maybe fifties. And I realized, there in the third series I worked on, it was called Men in Black. And so I really wanted that kind of thin men, Casablanca, dark suits, fedoras. And I just took a little look back and realized that that is a totally constant line in my work, and they're just things that I'm drawn to.

I used to watch a lot of old movies with my family. And so a little bit is drawn from that, a little bit from my own childhood and looking at old pictures of my parents in the fifties and sixties. And I recently started to get intrigued with going to state fairs and county fairs because there's a lot of symbolism there that excites me. I think the ferris wheels are always really beautiful and there's something really free about them. And I don't care if you're three years of age or 93, you still kind of get excited about it and it's still fun. And so I've been photographing rides and different little elements from fairs, and also other things in my childhood like docks, like swimming docks, I always went to summer camp, and trees. So there's a lot of nostalgia being brought into my work and I've noticed that pattern in the last six or seven years.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Why do you think that these images from your childhood are coming through now at this moment in your life, and why is it important for you to have them somehow be incorporated into your art?

Margot Hartford: That's a good question. I have a feeling I've probably come to that point right now because I've had loss and everybody is going through that. Everyone goes through it at a different stage. This is my stage. And so I've gone through a lot of my family's things. So you clean up the house and then you find the photo albums, and I have old slides, my father was doing those, I think they're like eight millimeter films when we were kids. And so I have a feeling that that is also contributing to it. So it's sad and painful, yet it's really great. It's really joyful to see all the photos from my past and to make those links.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So it sounds like it's also found, so you've been doing loss, but as part of the loss you've found. And you've brought things forward.

Margot Hartford: Yeah, correct. And I also wouldn't have made that direct connection, but it's just been in the last four or five years that I've really been going through and doing a deep dive into my family history.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: You were raised in Toronto,

Margot Hartford: Waterloo, but it's an hour from Toronto.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Yes. Thank you for correcting me because I know I was raised here in Yarmouth, which is very close to Portland, but it's not Portland.

Margot Hartford: I didn't want anyone listening to know that I didn't say Waterloo.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: To track you down and tell you that. Yes. Well, tell me about that. That's a really interesting piece of your background. I wonder how many people would recognize.

Margot Hartford: I'm not sure if you would recognize that in my work necessarily. I don't know. And I don't really know if I have a Canadian sensibility because when I moved to the US, and it's been almost 30 years, I was really fascinated with all things American and Americana. And we do, obviously in Canada, we have a lot of influence from the US television. And of course all of our products and things, but there's something very American when you come to the US. So it's funny because in some ways I think of the fair and the state fair and the cows and the Four H Club, I think of that as being very American, rodeo. All those things really fascinate me. So growing up in Canada, I think I was just lucky to have access to nature and lakes and also a cosmopolitan city like Toronto. I think I benefited from that, but I don't know if my work is necessarily Canadian.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: What would a Canadian sensibility be?

Margot Hartford: That is a good question. Well, it's interesting. I come here to the Maine area and I see there's things that are very Maine. So you go and you see, and it's in the paintings and some of the artwork in some of the small shops. So you see seagulls and you see a lot of boat related items and lighthouses. And you don't get that in Canada, or where I'm from in Canada. But when I go back to Canada, then I see the moose, the bear, the dock, the things that are maybe a little stereotypical, but in some ways they are Canadian, right? It's kind of fun. So we all exaggerate what are the things about our area that resonate with people. And it's usually items that people use day-to-day, and also animals and nature.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I've always been really interested in the idea that in the United States, we think of Canada and everybody in Canada is basically the same, but it's an enormous country. And my family has French Canadian roots, and my husband's family has a completely different set of Canadian roots. So even the family experiences are very different. And I suspect your family experiences probably different than those two experiences, but here in the United States, it's just anybody who's north of our border is Canadian.

Margot Hartford: Right. Well, and if you talk to a Canadian, they might have a very general idea of what is American as well. And you just have to travel a little bit around to realize, wow, it's so diverse here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: How did your family end up in California, per se?

Margot Hartford: Well, they didn't. I moved as an adult, so my family, we still are all in Canada.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: And what was that decision point for you?

Margot Hartford: You know what? I always wanted to live in the US. It's hard for a Canadian to move to the US, and I had an opportunity for a job to come to the US and I thought, I'm just going to take it. And even if I don't connect with it or if I don't feel comfortable, I can always go back to Canada, which is a great place. So I really felt like the decision to move was a leap of faith, but also I would never lose. So I moved and I never moved back. And so I am living in California and I really, I like the people, I like the weather, I like the opportunity there. So I've just ended up staying.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I know that, having visited California a few times, it's actually changed quite a bit, even in the timeframe in which I visited. And I think Maine actually has too. I think a lot of people are finding themselves on the coasts and really enjoying it. And then it kind of shifts things a little bit, not in a bad way, but I found in California there were a lot of people. There was just a lot of people around a lot of the time. But then I thought back to Maine and I'm like, well, actually there's a lot more people in Maine than as I was growing up here.

Margot Hartford: Oh, interesting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So I don't think that there's a good or a bad thing about it. I think it just shifts your experience of that. But tell me if you have found differently.

Margot Hartford: No, I think I had expected Americans to be different, which is kind of funny. And I was pleasantly surprised that I connected with a lot of people in the US and I still, I've got fantastic friends and I just feel like the Americans that I know are similar in a lot of ways, very liberal and also interested in learning small things. They never stop learning, and they're really open-minded. And so I felt really comfortable right away, but I don't know. And big city, I feel like San Francisco is a small big city because it's under a million people, even by Canadian standards, that's not a very big city,

Dr. Lisa Belisle: But somehow that seems like a place of just the right amount of people.

Margot Hartford: And probably for me, and that's also a finite geography because it's surrounded on three sides by water. So it was easy to get around and easy to get to know it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Which is actually not that different than Portland. I mean, Portland is a peninsula, literally. So you can get there and you can leave, but the Portland proper is pretty finite as well. So when you think about your own artistic journey moving forward, what are things that excite you about the next phase of Margot Hartford?

Margot Hartford: Oh, I don't know. I'm going to have to look into that. I am excited to continue the work that I'm doing on the transfers and, like everybody else, I just want to keep going a little bit bigger and bigger and bigger in terms of size. And that's a challenge because it's just a physically unwieldy process. You need to pull these big sheets of acetate. And so I just have to figure out how to do it at a larger scale. And that's my goal. But also I'm going to explore some new photo series. I'm working on a new one with kids actually as spacemen. If you think about my favorite Martian or the Jetsons or something, I have this thing in my head and I'm starting to work on that one.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, that's very fun. I look forward to seeing it.

Margot Hartford: Yes, thank you. It should be.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Great. Well, it's been a pleasure to spend time with you today. Thank you for joining us all the way from the other coast.

Margot Hartford: Oh, thank you for having me. It was great.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle and you've been listening to or watching our video podcast, Radio Maine, where we explore and celebrate creativity and the human spirit, and certainly Margot Hartford, one of our most recent Portland Art Gallery artists, is the very epitome of creativity in the human spirit. And I invite you to go to our website to see more. Or if in the Portland area, please also go to the Portland Art Gallery on Middle Street. And lots of good things to come, I'm sure. Thank you for joining us today.