What If Joy Is a Choice? Natalie Miller on Living Fully

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Hello, I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle. You are listening to or watching Radio Maine, our video podcast where we explore and celebrate creativity and the human spirit. We are sponsored by the Portland Art Gallery in Portland, Maine. And today it's my great pleasure to have with me Natalie Miller. She is a writer, the creator of Eat Stay Wheel, and also an advocate for those who have disabilities. It's nice to have you in the studio with me today. Thanks for joining me.

Natalie Miller: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. Apparently we're also joined by my cat, Prudence. She's going to make an appearance.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I love that Prudence wants to join us because frankly, if Shark and Newt, my dogs, were over here, it would be a very entertaining back and forth, I suspect between all of them. I think she knows you're talking about her too because she, like, her ears are kind of perked up in the background.

Natalie Miller: I think so. And she has this weird, this strange knack for just knowing when I'm on the phone or talking with somebody and she feels as though she has to be a part of the conversation. So we'll figure we'll let her be here with us today.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I like that. That's good. She has things to say in her own way.

Natalie Miller: Yes, that's right. That's right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Natalie, I'm really interested in the work that you're doing because what I read on Substack, you write Eat Stay Wheel, and it's so embracing of life. It's, how do I get the most out of this experience of being in Maine, of being outdoors, of engaging in art? When you put yourself out there and engage with the world that way, I think there's a tremendous return. And also I suspect that for you, putting yourself out there in the world physically is not as straightforward as it is for other people.

Natalie Miller: I think that's definitely true. I think that each day Eat Stay Wheel itself was born out of this kind of desire for me to really showcase that my life, my day to day life may look a little bit different than everyone else's in a lot of ways, but the truth is that it's really similar to a lot of folks' day to day life as well. So I sort of felt that Eat Stay Wheel is a bridge to showcase that I, as a disabled person, live life to the utmost in the same way that many able bodied folks do. Right. So just in the same way that you may showcase a really fantastic vacation as you should, I wanted to showcase the things that I have in my life that really light me up and bring me joy. And I've done this for a lot of years, but it wasn't until late fall, probably October of 2024, that I felt this kind of really strong sense that I really needed to start putting it out there for everyone.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: What happened in October that prompted you to go in this direction?

Natalie Miller: So actually, in late fall, probably October of 2024, I was diagnosed with early stage breast cancer. And that journey really was in an effort to kind of get through that journey, work through that journey and process it as it was happening. I really showcased my journey on social media and I did so in little spurts of daily reflection posts, right? They were short, but they really captured a snapshot of how I was feeling on a particular day or how I was sort of working through the season that I was in. And so when I had to go through a short bit of radiation treatment, for example, I did this little kind of blurb or two each day that were called Soundtracks from Machine Two because I was assigned to Machine Two. And my treatments lasted the duration of about two to three songs that would play overhead. And so at the end of the treatment cycle, I would come back each day and I would reflect on whatever song might have been playing on Machine Two that day. I just found that what started out as gratitude posts and recognition for whatever the season that I was in turned into really a way for me to kind of share my experience.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: What are some of the soundtracks? I mean, did you get to choose your own music when you went in? Or is this something that somebody chose for you? Or they say, here's the Spotify channel. Does this work for you? Or how did that come about?

Natalie Miller: It was just playing. It was the luck of the draw. It was like, what are we going to get today? What's going to be playing on this machine? As you are, you're there in a quite honestly, a pretty vulnerable state, right? Because I'm being treated for early stage breast cancer. I'm there. And I'm no stranger to hospital settings or surgeries or medical procedures. But I think that particular time was different in that I just had to kind of embrace it. I had to just accept that I was there and at the end of it, it was going to be better, right? And I needed something to focus on. So I didn't really get a say in the soundtrack. But I always found it was interesting to kind of take note at the time as to what was playing. So you might have, I think towards the end, one of the things that I remember was that Chapel Roan's Pink Pony Club was playing towards the end one day. And I thought that that was amazing because when I had first come in to start my sessions, one of the technicians that was there was just trying to liven up the mood one morning and she was dancing and singing to some other Chapel Roan song that was playing. And the energy was high. And so I think what came out of it for me in that moment was just the reminder to keep my energy and my joy as high as I can.

And so Eat Stay Wheel was sort of born out of that spirit. And it also came about because I'm an adventure seeker at heart and I'm always trying to showcase all the fun things that are going on in my life. I really wanted to showcase that for other people with disabilities who may not necessarily be able to live life exactly like I am. They can still feel brave enough to maybe explore and try so that they don't feel as though their life is being mapped out for them all the time.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Give me examples of some of these adventures that you've showcased in Eat Stay Wheel.

Natalie Miller: Yeah, sure. So I'm an avid downhill adaptive skier. Love skiing. Recently tried pickleball over the past summer. Not going to be giving up anything for pickleball, but if you need a cheerleader or somebody to create a really great playlist for you, I am that person. I can help with that. Surfing. Surfing is a true love. I've only experienced surfing a handful of times, but I will tell you that it was just really life altering for me. I love the ocean. And there's a difference between kind of sitting on the beach and watching the waves come in and sort of how they softly or more roughly come in on the sand and then just being immersed in it, you know, being immersed in the ocean. I think that's what I love about surfing is you get a change of scene, you get a change of perspective. So it's one of my favorite things to do and I hope here in the next couple weeks to give adaptive curling a try.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So where does one engage in adaptive curling? I having spoken to people from Maine Adaptive over the years, because that organization has been around for a long, long time and different names, different titles, but I did not know that they did adaptive curling. So where does one engage in adaptive curling?

Natalie Miller: They actually themselves directly are sponsoring the upcoming curling event. They're doing it in partnership with the Belfast Curling Club. And I live just outside of Belfast, Maine. And so I think that there was, you know, there's always a desire for Maine Adaptive to try to expand their programming. I've been an active participant athlete with the program for probably the better part of about ten years now, and we're always looking to expand programming. And so I think that this was just an opportunity where it was another sport to try. And so there was a partnership. I don't know much about the partnership, but I know it's happening. And I am excited that Maine Adaptive had a new network and opportunity. And I can't wait to try it. I know nothing about it, absolutely nothing about curling, but I think it'll be exciting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, it was fun for me to watch it in the Olympics again. And I mean, obviously we're not that far away from Canada and Canada is very active with curling. So it's intriguing, at least from that standpoint, anyway.

Natalie Miller: No, I would agree with that. I think that I was just kind of taken aback by the fact that there was going to be an activity that was so close to home. You know, generally speaking, when we're going to take part in an activity, we have to do quite a bit of traveling. So I was excited that there might be something a little bit more local.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: That's an interesting observation. Maine obviously has a lot of opportunities, Maine Adaptive in particular. And I think other organizations try to make these opportunities available to the people that want to participate. But Maine is still a pretty big state. So if you're living outside Belfast and there's an activity that's at Sugarloaf or Sunday River, that's still going to be a bit of a drive for you. So even accessibility has its own issues with accessibility, I guess I would say.

Natalie Miller: That's absolutely correct. Maine is a vast state and a lot of the programming with Maine Adaptive and other programs, depending upon your sport, is far away. So if you are a person with a disability or perhaps like myself, a non-driver, being a participant can be a little tricky. But I definitely always encourage folks. Even if you have transportation as a challenge, I still say don't let it be a barrier. Right. Try to definitely have conversations, express your interest, and we can certainly always find a way. But I think, you know, in addition to that idea, that's another reason why I opted to start Eat Stay Wheel. Because interwoven in the fabric of it is this idea that you can have a grand adventure or experience a new joy just by going outside and changing your perspective. So you don't necessarily have to get in the car, drive several hundred miles to try a new sport. Maybe you just need to wheel outside on your back deck with your iPhone and spend an extra twenty minutes taking some pictures of the space around you. Right. The lens in which you view the world is how your world will inevitably evolve. So we have control. Even though we are limited by mobility challenges, in many cases we're still in control of how we show up.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, I appreciate your saying that. I think back to doing a piece with Scotty Wenzel and his parents, and this was probably ten years ago now, maybe less, but with Maine Adaptive. And he's an individual, he's an adult now. He's non-verbal. But he enjoyed being out on the snow. He enjoyed being, having that feeling. You could tell he enjoyed it. He didn't have to say that he enjoyed it. It was clear that he enjoyed it. And he and his parents were very much tied into Maine Adaptive for many, many years. In fact, I think they even wrote a book about Scotty's stuffed dog and their adventures. And I think the dog's name is Skiway, if I'm remembering correctly. And so for me, I was always struck by the fact that this is somebody that took advantage of what life had to offer in the way that he was able to take advantage of what life has to offer. And so the perspective that you're describing is really very much not just what's out there and you're accepting it, it's what's out there and then the lens with which you view it.

Natalie Miller: I think that's definitely true. And I am so grateful every day that I was able to find Maine Adaptive and be introduced to it. I credit my husband very much with that because when we first met, friends told me, you know, if you want to see him in the winter, you better learn to ski, because he is on the mountain. That's where he's going to be on a Saturday afternoon. And I so I did, I took up skiing, you know, and we do that together, which is amazing. We adventure quite a lot together. He's my kind of adventure buddy behind the scenes. He's always there. He does do the bulk of the transporting from point A to point B. But he also is a wheelchair user. And I think that's what makes our story more unique than perhaps others is because generally, in many cases, you don't have two folks in the same household kind of dealing with similar challenges. But it really is us, and our challenges are different, but we are both wheelchair users and we are very mindful of kind of building the best possible life for ourselves that we can.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: You've been in Maine for more than twenty years now, and you, during part of this time, you were striving to move up the corporate ladder, and you were really very productive. You really focused on your occupation. And then you've described your journey with breast cancer from 2024. But did you ever think to yourself, well, what else? Like, you know, I'm in a wheelchair, I'm working really hard, I feel really burned out, and now I have breast cancer. Come on now. Like, at some point did you feel that way? Because you come across like, you have a great perspective. And also, I don't know, if it were me, I might start to feel a little sorry for myself. I don't know. So maybe that's just me. But what was that like for you?

Natalie Miller: I mean, I think we all do, Lisa. Right? Like, I would be completely lying to you if I said I didn't have moments of like, are you kidding me? Like, seriously, it's very true. I mean, right before my diagnosis, actually, I was full time, currently employed in the corporate space. And right before my diagnosis, I was feeling some serious burnout. I was really struggling with burnout. I had climbed. I had reached the pinnacle of what I felt corporate success to be. I was super proud of it. I had devoted many, many years to it. But I just kind of felt like, oh, man, like, really, I don't know if I can do it, you know? And so I took a little bit of time off. And it was during that time off, actually, that I had gone in for a routine screening that resulted in my diagnosis. And while it was all going on, of course I'm having moments of like, anything else, like, if there's any more shoes that fall from the sky, like, I just am not going to be able to take it. But thankfully, I was able to come through everything and still return. Once I returned to my current role, I was able to take a step back, though, because during that time, I had a lot of reflection. There was a lot of reflection of what's next. Not only what else, but what's next. Right. And I think that that happens with a lot of folks. That's not unique to me as a cancer survivor. I think that that happens at a lot of pivotal points in our lives where we just step back and say, I don't know. I don't know if the status quo is going to work anymore. I think it might need to be different. And I think that those conversations about what it could look like, that's what happened to me coming out of my cancer journey was what can it look like? Do I have to start over? Do I have to leave? Do I have to. What can it look like? And thankfully, I'm in a space where we were able to have that conversation and just make it look a little different. And I've also been honest to say that I don't think necessarily that it will be forever. Right. I'm building this. I'm building my Eat Stay Wheel. I hope to grow it to include all sorts of different things. And right now it's just me sharing my story with the rest of the world out there looking for my tribe. And I think that that's okay.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I'm really glad to hear that you were able to reengage with your corporate world in a way that was more successful for where you are now. Because I think that going through these shifts in our identity, I mean, because I also have had breast cancer and I'm ten years plus out from having breast cancer, but it's still always in the back of my mind. And you know, I was physically and emotionally changed by having gone through that. And sometimes it becomes part of your identity. But are there other parts of your identity that you then need to take a decision to move away from? Are there things that are sort of taken from you? I mean, that's the interesting back and forth, at least that I felt. So for you to be able to say, yes, I still have invested in this corporate world and it may look different for me, but I'm still here and I'm still going to do it in a way that works for me, you know, I'm glad that that worked out for you that way.

Natalie Miller: I think that it did work out, at least for now it's working, it's going well. But I had. I think what has come out of that is this an astute self awareness that I didn't have before. And that was that I definitely did want to experience and do other things that I was passionate about, such as writing more, you know, writing outside of crafting emails. Right. Writing more, speaking more. And I realized, too, that I'm a really great coach type of person. I'm a really good conversationalist, communicator. I realize I really enjoy coaching people. So I, you know, became a certified life coach. And I am now getting into really owning the joy of art for the joy of it and not for the. It's not right, it's not wrong. It just is. So I'm really excited about that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, let's talk about that, because I know that this has been part of your Eat Stay Wheel and your sharing. You're doing one hundred days of art, and you've been posting your pieces, which I love. They're beautiful. Some are like kind of fun and quirky, and some of them are like, oh, I never would have thought of doing that. So I do like this idea that you're just putting them out there. Here they are, this is what I'm doing right now. And I think that for you to decide that that was an important thing for you to do right now, be willing to put yourself out there and be vulnerable. I think there's a power to that.

Natalie Miller: Thank you. I appreciate that. I think for me, what it is, is I think societally, we get really caught up in, myself included, like, we only want to do something if we think we're going to be good at it. Like, if it's going to be good, if we can execute it masterfully, then we'll do it. If it's in our wheelhouse, in our skill set, then we'll do it. But I think what happened for me during my cancer journey and during my, you know, kind of coming back from being burnt out and sort of spent, was I did spend a lot of time just doing art, making art. And I think that I was afraid for a long time to just put it out there, let anyone see it. Right. Writers do this. We're afraid to let people read our work because we're afraid they're gonna dismantle our favorite characters and they're not gonna relate to the story. So we just keep it to ourselves. And I think that that is what Eat Stay Wheel is becoming, at least in this season right now, is that I wanted to just start doing it. I recently, by accident, ran over a piece of cardboard in my living room with my wheelchair. Like, we had received a package in the mail, and we're breaking down the box. A piece of the box falls on the floor and I ran it over and I look down, go to pick it up. I look down and I realize that there are tire tread indentations in the box. So I wheeled backwards, I wheeled forwards and I wheeled all around this box just to see, just to notice, like, the pattern in the cardboard. And I pick it up. I'm studying it. My husband's outside, he comes in from the woodshed and he's like, what are you doing? You know, and I just immediately run over to my kitchen table, get my paint markers, and I just start painting feverishly because I'm inspired by the random lines that have been imprinted on this piece of cardboard. So I spent a whole week plus painting on cardboard until I ran out and recently started. I cut a toilet paper roll in half that was empty. And I made little mini versions of art on those just because. Just for the joy that it brought me. And I think that there'll be more to come on that soon. But I think that we need to get better at doing things simply on the basis that it brings us joy, not for any other reason. Like, did it light you up? Like, did you go to a concert that just set your soul on fire? Great. Do more of that. Do more of that. I'm an avid concert enthusiast, so I love it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Who do you like to listen to? Who are some of your top concerts that you've enjoyed?

Natalie Miller: One of my favorites that I'm looking most forward to this summer is the return of the Ghost of Paul Revere will be back and I'm super ecstatic about it. Gonna be seeing them on my birthday this year. And I don't necessarily know if they're getting back together permanently, but I am super excited to hear that they are coming back for a reunion of sorts. One of my most favorite was I saw Avril Lavigne last May. I believe it was with my daughter, which was a whole kind of full circle moment because she just turned twenty-four. And so to be able to share with her music that she remembers me listening to when she was much younger was very, very nice.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: It strikes me as you and I are talking that this idea that you've got your writing, you've got your visual art, you've got your love of music, you've got your love of the outdoors. I mean, you're very much wanting to give yourself a sensory experience to the fullest extent possible. And I think that this is something that you have to be kind of intentional about in this day and age in particular, especially if you're in a high powered corporate job, probably keeps you in meetings, keeps you in front of the camera, keeps you doing things for other people, but in order to actually engage with the outside, the non-digital world, you have to say to yourself, no, this is important. I'm going to do this and I'm going to take the time that I need in order to make it possible for myself.

Natalie Miller: I would agree. I think one of the biggest challenges that folks have, including myself and a lot of my other colleagues, is that we don't allow ourselves to have the same level of energy and push towards the same type of energy that we put into our day to day inside within the cubicle or the corporate space. We need to carry that same energy outside as well. But we often, I think, feel guilty and we don't allow ourselves to do that. But the reality is that we are human first and that allowing ourselves to explore these areas that we really enjoy are part of helping us to ensure that we can be our best productive selves later. And I often say that I want to have the same excitement on a Saturday morning that I do on Tuesday. Like, I love Saturday. Saturday is my favorite day, but it is my favorite day because I've orchestrated it that way. I've intentionally set up Saturday to be the day that I love because it's the day that I can slow down. It's the day that I can experience art, it's the day that I can take photographs, it's the day that I can listen to music. It's the day that I don't have to really give myself over to an overflowing inbox full of other people's needs.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, you've described joy as a form of resistance, which I kind of love. This is you're pushing back against the status quo, what's kind of expected of us. And it sounds like your Saturday is sort of this manifestation of this resistance. And then hopefully it kind of carries into Tuesday, I would imagine, perhaps. But what does that mean? What does that idea of joy as resistance mean to you?

Natalie Miller: So I think that joy as resistance is a lot of things in my day to day. It makes that intentional joy seeking that I try to either write about it at the end of the day or I try to plan ahead for it throughout my day is my way of saying like my physical challenges are tough and if I'm not careful, they can overtake me. It's really easy to just stay in bed. It's really easy. Super easy. Particularly in the season that we're in right now. It is so easy in Maine this time of year to just pull the covers back up and say, I'm out, I'm done. Wake me up when the sun comes out. I think it's really simple. So having that joy, I say, I tell folks, put the joy on the calendar, right? If I'm talking to a colleague or somebody that I'm coaching, I say, put your joy on the calendar. And it's this whole idea that you have something to look forward to. It's your momentum. So that's what it means for me in a day to day sense.

But more broadly, it also means, like, unless you've been living under the biggest of rocks lately, we're in some pretty scary times right now. Things are a little bit uncertain. And, you know, that can be in corporate spaces or beyond corporate spaces. Job markets changing, the scope of the world is changing. Every day changed quite a lot in the last seven or eight days. I think that this whole idea that joy is resistance really helps us to stay grounded. And it's a reminder of, like, despite what's going on around us, we can control. We can control the lens for which we are seeing the world. Does that mean we're not anxious and we don't worry and we don't stress? No, no. It means that we are being more intentional and protecting the things that help us to make sure that we are still showing up to be our best selves. So maybe you only have five minutes to doodle on a piece of paper. Maybe you're doing it in the meeting that you should be listening a little bit more to. You have to give yourself grace and say that that's okay too. Not all day, every day. You know, you're not gonna have the perfect Saturday every week, but you're just striving to create more moments that bring you more joy. I think that's really it. And I also, to go along with joy as resistance. I also believe firmly that joy shared is joy multiplied. So taking us back to the art I love, you know, I love the pieces I create, some more than others. But if I love it, then who am I to say that somebody else may not love it too? They don't have to love what I made necessarily, but if they do that's cool. What I really mean is, maybe they will just be like, oh, I never would have thought of painting on cardboard, but I'm gonna go try it. I'm gonna go see what happens, you know? Or, hey, I didn't know Maine had that trail or that sport or that place. Or I didn't know I was five minutes from that really awesome coffee shop that has a lavender latte. I'm totally going there. Right? That's what it means to me, is that we can't gatekeep. We shouldn't be gatekeeping happiness. We need to be seeing it as a necessary medicine. Joy is a necessary medicine that we all can have a little part of each day. And if you could do nothing else, I guarantee you I was going to ask you this. Do you have a favorite coffee cup, Lisa? Do you have a favorite coffee cup that you drink your coffee out of? Is your day different if you don't have your coffee out of that coffee cup?

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Yeah, it does feel a little disjointed. Yes.

Natalie Miller: So I think that that's what it is. That it's what it is for me. If I can do nothing else for joy that day because my schedule is crazy and I'm giving my energy to all other places, the one thing is that my favorite coffee cup, or one of them, because I have more than one, is gonna be there as my sidekick for the journey that I'm gonna go on that day.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I like it. And clearly Prudence is also your sidekick, because I like that she. You talk about joy, and she's like, oh, this must be my cue to come back in and be part of this conversation.

Natalie Miller: Yeah. And this is actually. Oh, that's her brother. Go away. Oh, my gosh. They both made an appearance today. That's her brother, Alfie. And it's the time of day where they sometimes like to walk around in front of everything that you're doing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So, I mean, it's joy manifested, right? Cats couldn't be any more of that.

Natalie Miller: They are the actual, like, physical animal kingdom representation, I think, of what joy can look like. I mean, who else can just kind of have breakfast, go find a place to nap, go watch a bird or two and do it all over again? I mean.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, I know you and I share a mutual friend in Karen Longfellow, and one of my favorite things is when she sends me pictures of Bert, her cat, who's like a calico cat. I think, I'm not sure exactly, but when Bert sits in a box or Bert goes up in the rafters or. And my dogs are super cute, but they don't sit in boxes or go in rafters. And so I just, I'm so appreciative of her sending me these pictures because I'm like, that's Bert showing up in the world, making me happy. Thanks, Bert.

Natalie Miller: That's right. That's right. Bert is the best. And Alfie and Prudence and Bert are very, very similar. We always exchange our boxes photos and our rafter photos and just our squirrel watching or whatever the case may be, and I love that. And Karen is one of my most favorite humans. She's actually here with me today, and I'm just happy that she's with me. And I couldn't be more grateful for. When you talk about joy and how to find it and getting involved in sports or activities that just really round out your quality of life, I think that another part of that conversation that can be overlooked are the other people in your orbit or in your tribe that really help to expand not only your perspectives, but also help you to make sure that you can maximize your experiences. My life would be far less joyful if it wasn't for the people in my life, such as Karen and others that just make me feel seen every time that we're in the same space.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I'm glad to know that Karen's with you and she's also one of my favorite humans, so it's kind of very appropriate that even though she's not on camera, she's absolutely with us today and she's actually the one that introduced us, so we give her that credit as well. And actually she's my co facilitator with our virtual book circle because we have a shared love of books. So that's something that Karen and I, and I know you also have a love of books and reading. So, you know, sometimes people are just. We're all meant to come together and we need the kind of conduit people to introduce us. So I guess we're lucky that Karen was that conduit person for us in this case.

Natalie Miller: I would agree. I think that. And I'm looking forward to. I know that you're having. I think that I saw that you're going to have another book circle coming up, and so I definitely look forward to learning more about that. And I just think that, you know, we particularly coming out of the pandemic, you know, we need connection more than ever. And so I'm just so grateful for the connections, you know, being able to be here today, talk about all the things that we have in common and things that, you know, these common threads of just really human nature and new experiences and our fur babies, they're a part of all of it. We are one big unit of awesomeness. And I think that it's really important to stop and give gratitude for the great connections.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Very well said. Well, it's been my pleasure to talk with you today, Natalie, and I'm sure that at some point we'll meet you in the future in person, maybe when we don't have snow on the ground in March, which is what's happening today. It could happen, I guess, through May, but we're going to hope that that's not going to be true. But it has been my great pleasure to speak with Natalie Miller, writer, disability advocate, creator of Eat Stay Wheel, here today on Radio Maine, where we explore and celebrate creativity and the human spirit, sponsored by the Portland Art Gallery. And Natalie, your spirit absolutely shines through. So I appreciate your willingness to join me and have this wonderful conversation today. And best to Karen, Alfie and Prudence as we're signing off.

Natalie Miller: Thank you so much for having me.