Modern Day Renaissance Sculptor: Andreas von Huene

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Hello, I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to or watching Radio Maine. Today I have in the studio with me artist Andreas von Huene. Nice to see you today.

Andreas von Huene: My pleasure. Nice to see you too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: It's a lovely musical name for a very musically oriented, at least in the family, individual. You have not only a strong visual art background, but also a whole musical art background coming from your father.

Andreas von Huene: And my mother.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: And your mother. Well, tell me about that.

Andreas von Huene: She got her diploma in library science in Frankfurt, Germany. It goes something like Diplom-Bibliothekar an wissenschaftlichen Bibliotheken, which means higher level services, scientific libraries or something like this. But she can read voraciously. While I'm trying to plod my way through a little Bach prelude, she has to jump in on the piano and play the whole thing at proper tempo.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: That's amazing.

Andreas von Huene: And she plays viola da gamba, viola, violin, recorder, harp, piano, all these things. So she's got the fast nerves to do that sort of thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: And your father makes instruments?

Andreas von Huene: Yes. My father made renaissance and baroque recorders and flutes and some other interesting things. Researching original instruments in museums around the world, reproducing them, and then also adapting them to modern pitch. So we typically make instruments either in a 440 modern pitch or a 415 old pitch, we call it. Everybody wants to push pitches around for their own personal feelings. We'll do a little plea for standardization.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So how did this translate into your interest in art and in sculpture?

Andreas von Huene: Well, my parents, when we were little, I'm one of five, my parents couldn't afford babysitters very often. So we would be taken along to the concerts they would give to the Camerata and other organizations in the Boston area, to the Museum of Fine Arts. In the evenings, the concerts were usually in a room called the Gobelin Lab because they had these Gobelin tapestries. Now I realize the room is clad in Tennessee pink marble, so very live renaissance type acoustics. We got to know the music pretty well as kids and would fidget. So these docents would take pity on us and take us on personal tours of the museum, which means you get to have a sense of not intimidation, but perhaps ownership. The Egyptian department was really good. I was speaking with a friend of mine about it, and we realized we had the same idealized vision of this thing, this artifact, a chamois shirt, a t-shirt with little incisions such that it was a fishnet stocking type of t-shirt or undershirt cut out of one piece of chamois leather thousands of years ago. How did you do that? Beautiful thing. I'm not sure it's on display right now, but he had seen it too. So these little connections that you make in the artistic world to artifacts. For example, the yellow jasper, somewhat broken face. We think it might be a queen, one of the queens, in yellow jasper, exquisitely done with an exaggerated vermilion border, this little edge exquisitely done. So you have these linchpins to art that carry you forward. Because of music, when I was a teenager, I visited and the same docent who was kind of like an aunt figure said, oh good, you're here. We just got a new kimono. I want to show you this latest kimono. I'm saying to myself, kimono, schmono, I want to see the Egyptian stuff again. But now I'd love to see this kimono. The whole world of kimono design is amazing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Do you still sing? Where do you sing?

Andreas von Huene: I still sing in the church choir. But also when I visit me mum, I sing the old family songs to her.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So I'm getting the sense that you speak German, probably sing German.

Andreas von Huene: Yes, both.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: And English and other, sometimes?

Andreas von Huene: A little bit of Latin.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Okay. That's what I was going to ask, is other languages.

Andreas von Huene: The beautiful thing about being in a glee club is you get to learn to sing in French and German. I haven't done Russian yet, but my son has, and different languages. For example, a requiem, he manages to match the emotions with the meanings of the words, with the sound, with the pitches and the dynamics. So it just rolls beautifully. It's almost effortless. You have to work a little bit, especially when you're at speed and doing those fast passages and chromatic bits. So each one is a joy. We're so fortunate to have access to it all.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Yes. We have a lot of that going on here in Maine.

Andreas von Huene: Yes. A lot of crosslinking. You have to scratch a bit sometimes, but then you can find all kinds of things.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: What is your Maine connection? Tell me about that.

Andreas von Huene: I was born in Bath, so long ago. I was thinking about this the other day. Wednesday I was shoveling snow and the snow was melting fast. We had snow season, mud season. We had some peaks of blue sky, which we love as artists here in Maine, and a mosquito flew by. Well, there we are, we're in Maine. So I was born in Bath. My friends will say, no, you grew up in Brookline, Mass. But I always came back summers to my grandmother's house in Woolwich, and I loved that. We have friends nearby in Nasik. I live across the street from them now. I always wanted to come back. My grandmother, born in Hartford, was taken when she was three years old by her mother on a boat trip from Hartford to Castine. And to her dying day she would talk about how her mother put her on the sink and kissed her under her chin and then lifted her up to the wheeling seagulls overhead, that sense of vertical. So after the war, she was looking for a place to educate her sons, my father and his two brothers. And Bowdoin College is welcoming to foreign students. So she settled in Brunswick.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Did your father end up going to Bowdoin?

Andreas von Huene: Yes, he did. Graduated Bowdoin. During his final exams in mathematics, at one point during the exams, the professor called him forward and said, hey, I think you better take a break from this and go see your wife in the hospital. That was me being born.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Oh my goodness.

Andreas von Huene: He had an interruption in all of this because the Korean War came through. He had come over from Germany in 1948, so this was all new to him. Then the Korean War started up. What do I do? So he loved ships, but they said, no, no, go in the Air Force. So he went in the Air Force and played in the Air Force Band in Washington, DC and elsewhere for several years, and built model cannons.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: What about your uncles? Did they go to Bowdoin as well?

Andreas von Huene: Yes. My uncle Mike went to Bowdoin. He became a banker, Morgan Guaranty Bank. We're all proud of him. He was a vice president of Morgan Guaranty Bank. I visited him in Munich, Germany, where he was also stationed. And my uncle Christian was an art major at Bowdoin, but then went to Harvard, became a physician. I wonder who else is a physician in this room? And he worked at the Lovelace Clinic in Albuquerque.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, as a Bowdoin graduate myself, I'm very glad to hear that you have that family connection. I'm glad to hear that Bowdoin welcomed your father and your uncles there.

Andreas von Huene: Yes. Bowdoin was welcoming to foreign students. A long history of it, and still.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Yes, that's very true. So I'm wondering about your art, because that is mostly why you and I are connecting here today. In particular, I'm very intrigued by a piece that you just brought into the Portland Art Gallery. It's a piece that was made out of an elm that we used to have here in Yarmouth, Herbie the Elm. It was here for at least a couple hundred years.

Andreas von Huene: I want to say it's 230 something years, maybe.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Something like that. Before they cut it down. And somehow I see this Instagram photo of you bringing your sculpture, which is essentially Herbie reincarnated. This speaks. How did that happen?

Andreas von Huene: This speaks to the interconnectedness of those who make things in Maine. So I was also a member of the Maine Woodworkers Association, where we would get together once a month for somebody's studio and share insights and stories. So I got a call from Chris Beckford, I think, hey, they're taking Herbie down. And so-and-so was going to be cutting up the tree. So a bunch of us showed up one Saturday at the sawmill in New Gloucester. There was a slab, 10 feet long, five feet wide, five inches thick on the drying rack. One piece of wood. And everybody was buying wood. I found this piece that looked, oh, I wonder what I can do with this. And it didn't take long. Oh, that's what I can do with this. So to celebrate this living tree with another living being seemed appropriate, as beautiful material to work. Because there were big branches, no one else wanted this piece because of this big whorl you can see, or the checking where the branch had come out. I said, I don't know what we can do with that, leave it alone, and that'll be the feathers.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: And tell me about the naming of this piece.

Andreas von Huene: Well, originally I called it Herbie, of course, but I thought we could do a little more formal name. And Ardea is part of the Latin name for Great Blue Heron.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Ah.

Andreas von Huene: Ardea herodias, something or other.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So it is very interesting that you've somehow transformed one living thing into a very different type of other living thing. And it's a very large piece.

Andreas von Huene: It's almost nine feet tall. It just barely fits standing in my pickup truck. And I thought, I'm going to put it in my truck, no problem. It's like, no, I'm not. Herons have all these different poses. So trying to capture, sometimes they, especially the smaller herons, try to stand as if they're a reed. Don't mind me, I'm just standing here like a reed, get the fish or a frog or whatever. And they always croak after you scare them and they take off. There are all these little things that we learn about herons being here on the coast of Maine. Doing the eyes on a bird is interesting because the eyes integrate with the head, the forehead. Do they have eyebrows? Sometimes, kind of, depending if the feathers are wet or not. And then how the beak and the nostrils are formed. All the stuff comes together kind of right here, just as it does on people. And that's a joy to discover. You look at photographs and say, I'm going to put a pencil mark here, I'm going to sneak up to it. But then doing this long pointy beak, since that is the business end of a bird, but it's not such a sharp point. It tapers and then the bottom part curves in a little bit. So all these nuances of shape and form and gesture are, for me as a discoverer of them, abstract. I can take it away from the critter and just think about it as a form. So people say, you're always doing figurative work. Well, when you're making it, it feels abstract. Maybe the figurative part is in developing the gesture and the pose, the dynamic aspect of life. I seem to do that a lot, trying to put a little bit of flow into it, a little bit of curve, asymmetry.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: And how long did this take you, this piece? Because I know that Herbie was taken down quite a few years ago, and you're describing going to get this piece from New Gloucester. Did it take this entire time for it to present itself to you in its abstract form?

Andreas von Huene: This one, no. I had other pieces of elm that I took from that collection or bought from that collection. But this, I had it out on the sawhorses. This is years ago now. I think it was cut down, and within a year I had the piece, maybe even half a year, but then let it dry. Then I pulled it out and put it on sawhorses outside. And I said, oh, and I looked at some photos, oh, here's how I could make it work. There was a saw cut that didn't go all the way through, thin saw cut, thank goodness. So I have the tail feathers covering that saw cut on one side, and you'll see how the long leg is spliced onto that saw cut. And then there's a steel rod going all the way up through the leg into the body to make this structurally sound. But this is fun to do. Get the elevation, get things high up in the air. That's something I'm finding more in working in granite. There's a whole style of working granite where it is a monolith and you are allowed to think of it as being a very stable part of the universe. Okay, well what if I can get it up in the air and make it light? So now it's a different kettle of fish. So all these ranges of possibility.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: There's another piece that I've seen, Andreas, that actually has motion to it, that is very interesting to me.

Andreas von Huene: Yes, oh yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: But I don't normally think of this type of sculpture as having the possibility of motion.

Andreas von Huene: Yes, of kinetic.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Yes. There are some sculptures and some people who sculpt, it's obvious that is what they do.

Andreas von Huene: I've done some of those too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: But this one doesn't necessarily present itself at first that way.

Andreas von Huene: Surprise.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Yes. So how did this emerge for you?

Andreas von Huene: Working with real materials, and especially as they get larger, you think about the center of gravity and how am I going to move it from there to there. So I discovered that if I have the center of gravity slightly lower than the radius of curvature of the base, sounds awfully geometric, it will self-right. It's a self-righting form, unless you go too far. So I played with that. But I also was playing, in that one, with the contrast between the verde, the verdigris of the bronze against the reddish brown of the wood, giving us a color shift when it was photographed from various angles. The photograph that really worked was the one kind of looking at the end, but just enough that you could see through the upper hole. You could see the end of the upper hole to give a hint of, there's a passage here. And that's something that is important in sculpture, having a sense of how thick something is. And a couple of ways of doing that easily. One is, and you think you're a god when you first learn to do this, is to drill a hole through it. And the other, which was a device used by an English sculptor whose name escapes me, was to leave a boss on each end of the sculpture. So you can see this face starts here, and it must end over there, just to give cues to how thick it is. Well, some of the sculpture I do, you can tell that. Anyway, these are interesting things to observe, take advantage of. You bump that thing, it's heavy, but it'll self-right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: It seems like you enjoy using a variety of different types of media to make your works. Do you go through phases where you use one sort and then you move to the next sort? Or do you go back and forth between different sculptures?

Andreas von Huene: So when I go up to JC Stone, one of several stone yards in Maine, that's my two and a half acre candy box. Ooh, look at that one over there. A few years ago I was standing at their scrap pile, smaller pieces, less than a ton. I looked over and I saw this reddish stone behind there, a big dumpster. And I said, this is at a hundred paces, I think I know what that is for a shape. I'm guessing it's this. If it is, I know exactly what I'm going to do with it. And sure enough, now it's a nine and a half foot long owl, quite abstracted, in red granite, very hard red granite, and quite modernist style. Well, how could I resist it? It called to me. So there's this forward and backwards thing. Sometimes a form suggests itself to me, or sometimes I'm looking for something black so I can do a whatever. So it's always this two-way prowl. And then you talked about different medium. Combining mediums, different materials, that's more work because you have to make one face and then fit something to it. But that's life, you're combining things. I think that's a good clue to another aspect of this. I feel quite facile in sculpting either by additive processes or subtractive processes. I pick up this tool, I pick up that tool, it's almost subconscious. So that's an extension of the material question. I could work this material with this tool, that tool, or by hand, or put a chain around it, drag it down the road behind my truck to give it a glaciated surface, whatever. So to break these boundaries is something that I think is a gift to us who work in Maine, because we have access to tools and to materials and to each other.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So do you learn from other people who work in the types of mediums that you do?

Andreas von Huene: And also from those who don't work in the same mediums.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Oh yes. So give me some examples.

Andreas von Huene: Yesterday I had a friend, Jeff Dubin, come by. He worked for years in California. He does these exquisite geometric plaster forms, exquisitely refined, shoebox size and smaller, quite tight geometry and with a surface finish. He and I talk about a range of things. So I'm saying, okay, here we have, we just got snow. I've been thinking for years, how can I use snow as a quick, fast medium for making something? So we discussed, well, we could, if I heat up a pot of wax, I can paint wax on the snow. So that's what I did yesterday afternoon. But then he said, well, you know, maybe you could use algin, a seaweed product, mix it up. Maybe that's not too sensitive to the cold of the snow, that it will set up enough to create this husk around a form. And I pulled out my spray shellac to spray the snow, some shellac to let the wax have a little bit of grip. So when the snow melted out, there's this little spider web of white shellac that gave just enough tooth for the wax. And then I realized holding the snow melted the surface enough so that it was wet and slippery, and the wax would drip off. But if it was clean snow, untouched, I could kind of get it to start and build up layers. Then Steve Porter, who does stainless steel work, he and I are buddies, and he called me up a few years ago, I have all this scrap, can you help me figure out what to do with it? Let's have a session. So I drove up and we had a lovely afternoon, and I made a couple of experimental pieces, as did he, just playing with shapes, no guilt and no theme, no subject. Let's play with forms. That's a lovely thing to do, to take the time to play, earnest play. We don't do that enough, I think, in our world. Jesse Salisbury and I talk frequently. He does very large granite work and we share our tool talk. Sam Finkelstein, who's new to the world, he's in Rockland, my ways and means committee. Jesse showed me a little pneumatic grinder, has a little two inch wheel on it. Oh, what a joy, that thing. It's got power from such a little thing. So you can get in little corners and do stuff. And I have a machine shop as part of my studio. So I could machine these wheels that I found that were extra coarse. You want to go fast? Let's go fast. I'm going to go fine, let's do this. You want to put a polish pad on this? I'll make this adapter so I can adapt the tools. Then Sam said, Andreas, you have this special tool, where did you get that? So I go on the computer and I pull up my file and I say, AliExpress, here's the model number, order that, and then get these grinding wheels. And when you get them, come to me and I'll machine them for you. Meanwhile, he's doing these speaker boxes in granite. They must weigh 1500 pounds finished, maybe a little less, by machining these big speaker cabinets out of granite. Well, that's an interesting thing to learn about. We were at a symposium a couple years ago in Hallowell, and he was drilling these six inch core holes. That's a big core hole in granite. So you're really pushing hard. So we were sneaking up to how to drill these holes, and one of the tricks is you break some of the teeth off the core drill. So there's more pressure on the existing ones. You just want to push hard. So he broke three of the teeth off and the other three cut much faster. So I'm with him in parallel, trying to suggest, but also watch, back and forth. This is a joy. You see what other people do. It's like, why didn't I think of that? I have a friend, Dan Ucci, who does very large, mostly architectural installations, fireplaces with these enormous natural stones or split stones, and he has this understanding of stone, unadulterated stone, that is sublime. He'll say, no, not that one, that one. Why? You can't always describe it, but he's right. So pure, over the shoulders of my colleagues is a joy.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So some of what you're describing to me is also this playing with the tools that you have. So there's what you're working on, there's who you're working with, and then there's what you have at your disposal to do things with. So it sounds like an interesting kind of interplay.

Andreas von Huene: I learned this from my father. You can't go to a catalog and order a reamer for an A 440 alto in F. You have to make that reamer. So we had to set up a machine shop for machining these very crazy tapers on this hard D2 tool steel, and then machine the flutes so it cut well, cut smoothly and no chatter, and give us exactly the bore we wanted, very tight tolerances. So once you learn how to make your own tools, or that you can, that's another whole world. Why only do what you can buy at such and such a place? My son's colleague came visiting from California. My son gave him a tour of my studio, and later my son reported something nicely. He said, Dylan said, there's nothing here from Home Depot. It's all heavy duty American machine tools and equipment. But we do a lot of modification and a lot of jigs and fixtures on our own.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I think you're bringing up something that's very interesting, and that is that many people have gotten used to just using what there is commercially available.

Andreas von Huene: There's so much available now.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: There is, yes. But if you have the ability to look beyond what's right there, then I would think that that also broadens your ability to be creative, because you don't limit yourself in the same way.

Andreas von Huene: Suppose that you're a surgeon and you do your first appendectomy. Oh man, that must be quite the ride emotionally. But then if it went well, you will have built your confidence and your courage to do a double appendectomy or whatever next thing would be. So I think that's part of the joy of being in this long enough, is that you try crazy things, and if you get away with it enough, you have encouraged yourself. And there's a nice challenge side of that. As you're becoming less challenged by the material world and the making world, your challenge for what to make also goes up. Now what's worthwhile doing? Oh, I better do some more heavy duty dreaming, not just scale. Sometimes the opposite is tiny, tiny detail is often much harder than big scale and much slower. But isn't that the joy of it? If I can build a dinghy, then eventually I'll be able to build a lobster boat and then a tugboat. I think of painter friends, the scariest thing is the blank canvas. Where do I start? What do I do? Maybe not for everybody, but how do you get going? Once you've broken that plane enough times, it's not so intimidating. Now the intimidation is trying to get that perfect chartreuse by mixing this and that. What's worthwhile doing. And then you see that beautiful rock that's calling you, my love. And it doesn't matter what that is, it's just charge.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, it sounds like you've been thinking like an artist really from your earliest years. It sounds like you've been taking in all sorts of multi-sensory information that has enabled you to continue to evolve in the work that you're doing. Have you noticed any patterns in the way that you approach things or the types of things you continue to feel drawn to?

Andreas von Huene: When you're a kid, you don't think of yourself as an artist or a machinist or anything. You might realize that you're pretty good with your hands or with whatever. So these labels come on later, and then you start testing, is that label accurate? Am I an artist? Am I a knuckle dragger? But we also have the opportunity to do a lot of things, or to retain experiences. So for example, I was landscaping after college. I worked for GE overseas as a field engineer for heavy duty gas turbines around the world. You see a bunch of stuff. But it didn't give me an opportunity to make things. I found I really needed to make things and use my hands. So as I left that field, I was able to build my house from that. But then the landscaping, you're outside in the state of Maine, you're working your butt off physically, but every day you can see you did something, visual gratification, which is nice to have. And I remember doing these, I was sent off to this fairly formal residence to make some new garden beds. There's a lawn, take out the sod, make the shape. Well, how do we do that? You get a nice big garden hose and you drape it across the lawn in the sun, so it's warm and limber. And then you make that shape with that garden hose and say, okay, that's my template. Now you cut in with a shovel around this. Meanwhile, my engineering degree is saying, okay, what's the formula? How do you make sure there's a continuous form, a continuous curve mathematically, no strange discontinuities? But the art side then says, maybe, but I think a little discontinuity here would be good. A little bit of zip. So you start to build up layers of understanding from childhood all the way through, hasn't stopped yet, and see what other people do. It's like, why didn't I think of that? It's lovely. So for example, that piece that you mentioned, that rocks back and forth, Joe Hemes, an architect and lighting artist in South Portland, he and I collaborated on the Wyoming project for the Maine Maritime Museum. So we got to be good buddies. We also did things for the Children's Museum, which he designed. So I was looking at this triangular piece of wood. I said, this is a precious piece of wood, I want to do something like this. So I called him and said, hey Joe, let's have a session, can you come on up? So we played with ideas and he came up with that rocker bottom and then cutting through that hole in the bottom as if it's a doorway to the other side. That was, in a sense, in the design phase, collaborative. That's a joy. I may not be in his shoes artistically, that's his world, but I can take it as another tool in my toolbox. My uncle, who's the physician, would talk about learning in surgery how to tie knots. No, that would be a slip knot, you don't want that when you're holding this and that together, in terms of sutures. But you might want it to slip in this case. And as human beings, we are capable of this huge wide range of possibilities and insights and feelings, and then refine them to this one little art piece.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: So it sounds like you've managed to keep your creative side entertained and play with that, but also use your engineering and mathematical side as a means of playing with that as well. It's not necessarily that one is more logical and rational. You're just playing with things on the engineering side in a different way.

Andreas von Huene: It's automatic. I can't help it. But I'll tell you a little story. So I decided to go to graduate school after doing landscaping and machine tool building. I stumbled into a program. I went for an engineering degree, a master's at Stanford, but my advisor said, go talk to Rolf Faste. He runs the product design program. So I talked to Rolf Faste and he said, I'll hold a place open for you in our program, in the product design program, which was originally designed academically to put the business students, the art design students and the engineering design students together, or those disciplines together, in one person. Typically product design is things as wide ranging as designing an appliance or designing, well, a famous story is Depends. Here's a need, find a need in the world. How are you going to solve that need? Okay, so that's designing a product for mass production. Well, I wound up deciding to take the program, but I had to do the undergraduate year first in the graduate year. So I had to finish up the engineering classes, which was fine anyway, because they're required. And then the senior year, you have a trimester basis. The first trimester you are expected to brainstorm and find a project worthy of the next two semesters for your master's project. And that was very difficult. Several of us, there are 16 of us or so in the program, most had a hard time concentrating on making the assembly of those skills of the art side and the engineering side. And I remember having to consciously sit on the engineering side, no, don't answer now, to build up the self-confidence in the art side. Even though I'd been exposed to art for so many decades, to build up the confidence of the art side until there's parity. And then of course you bring in other things, not just art and engineering, but music, whatever. So that was a painful shift, but an intentional shift, to sit there day after day making lists, what am I going to do? And I came up with landscape bridges, for the experience of the crossing rather than the geometry, the geology of the crossing. So I did research all around the Bay Area, to all kinds of gardens. And there was this one perfect landscape bridge in the Japanese garden. It was just the right amount of lift. Not a very long bridge, maybe 20, 24 feet, but it had just enough crown that as you walked up it, you could feel your body mass. It wasn't an athletic thing like the Chinese bridge, and it wasn't the highway, like the American bridge. It gave you this kinesthetic feedback loop. And I think I'm still grooving on that, because you can see in a lot of my work, I still enjoy imbuing a sense of dynamic or motion, even in a very static piece. And now I can't help it. I know I'm thinking how I'm going to mount it, I'm going to do whatever with it, without having finalized the sense of what it is. I'm also not scared of it. I'm an American. I have power tools, even if they're made in the old country. And I have friends with crane trucks.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: Well, I've enjoyed our conversation today. I've learned a lot.

Andreas von Huene: And so have I. Thank you. A pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle: I'm glad you've decided to join the Portland Art Gallery, and very glad to see that Herbie is going to be featured in a new form at the Portland Art Gallery. So that is where you can find information and also see Andreas von Huene's works, at the Portland Art Gallery. I encourage you to go spend some time there and hopefully have a chance to meet this delightful individual at one of our upcoming openings. Thank you for coming in today.

Andreas von Huene: You're welcome. Thank you very much for hosting.