Inside the National Gallery of Art: Tosca Ruggieri on Art, History, and Hidden Stories

And today I have with me an art historian and also the founder of Art with Tosca. This is Tosca Ruggieri who I happened to have the wonderful fortune to meet last spring, I guess it was. Now it seems a bit ago as you toured us through the National Gallery. So thanks for joining us from, I believe you're in DC right now, is that correct? That's correct. Just outside of DC and Well, thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it. I was fascinated by the way that you took us into the National Gallery, and obviously there's so many things about the National Gallery or really any museum, any large museum that one could choose to focus on. You were really skilled in bringing us to individual pieces and weaving a story around these pieces. And I think that was one of the reasons why I wanted to interact with you on Radio Maine because this idea of weaving together story history, art is something that's really near and dear to the work that we do. So tell me about with your background in art history and also as an educator, why have you chosen to use this approach? Yes, thank you for having me. I'm very glad to be here today and tell a little bit more about how I created "Art with Tosca" and why and how I like to bring art to people. So I come from a background of the art market. I used to work in galleries in London, commercial galleries with a very different perspective. And the art market can be a little bit of a confusing word for people who are not familiar with the dynamics of the art market, how artworks circulate. And when I moved to Washington DC in 2021, I had to completely start fresh and reconsider what I was going to do. And of course we're in Washington DC it's not New York. The art market is not Washington DC is not known for its art market, but instead it's known for the museums. You have all of this Smithsonian Museum and you have other wonderful museums that are not part of the I was trying to navigate different system here. We were just arriving and I went to the National Gallery on the day, it reopened after the pandemic, and I had been there in 2015. But coming back made me realize how it was really a state of the art collection. It has nothing to envy to the Met or other really famous museum. And I really like to share my passion for art with other people. And so I thought initially to create a tour where I would guide people in the museum. So initially it started with creating a tour about the highlights of the museum because it's such a large museum with an extensive collection that people who have never been in this museum who only have limited time to see it because they're only going to be in DC for a few days. They might want to spend two, three hours in the museum to say they've seen it. But seeing it with a guide makes it so much more worth it because you get really to take out something. You are not just trying to find your way in the museum. And people enjoy that. They're guided and they don't really have to look at a map. They just have to follow and really absorb what I will share with them. And when I started, it was a lot of small group tours. So I like to keep the experience intimate also to respect other people visiting the museum. I don't like to have large groups. So it was kept at 10 people, but sometimes you'd end up having four or five people either from the same family or from different parties. But it created really intimate experience where people were able to ask questions that they wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable asking in another setting. And what I realized when I started doing these stories that people didn't necessarily have a large understanding of techniques, of a timeline as well. And I like to guide them in the museum chronologically so they see the evolution of painting how painting in the 17th century in the Netherlands was fundamentally different from what was made by Italian Renaissance masters. And I like to really break that down for people. So it's really about opening up a conversation. And I don't like it to be a monologue where I'm the only one speaking, but instead I really invite my guests to ask the question they've always had. And yeah, that's a little bit of what I do and I like to keep it to only a handful of paintings rather than seeing the entire museum and trying to pack too in what is at the end a restricted time. So instead I like to just select about 10 pieces for a two hour tour, and then we go and we explore these pieces in detail. When we went, there was one specific set of pieces that we were exploring together, but what I loved about our experience with you is that you heard what we were interested in and you said before you go, we are almost done. Let me show you this. Mary Cassat, you might be interested in this additional work because I've done this work in my other type of educational presentation that speaks to women, women artists. And here's this piece by Mary Cassatt. So what is it about, for example, female artists that appealed to you? And so let's start with that question then I'll ask you a follow-up question. Since I started showcasing the work of women artists in the museum has always been an interest of mine. The National Gallery curators have done a really good job at putting the works of women painters on the walls. And I want to really emphasize that on some of my tour so much that I created an entire itinerary dedicated to women in the arts at the National Gallery, which not only covers the works of women artists, but also women who have been instrumental in shaping the National Gallery of Art and by being great patrons of the arts. But when it comes to women artists, I have a lecture series about it that I deliver in person to senior living communities or online to different audience. When I bring it in person in the museum, in the tour, I find it to really resonate with a lot of guests. I have to say most of the people booking that tour are women. So I want to see more men coming in hearing these stories. And really it's about showing how women, how to, they were always around. There's this idea that women artists are a new thing or a recent thing from the 19th century, but the fact is you had extremely important women artists in the 16th, 17th century, and I want to highlight their stories and show that they were sometimes as highly regarded as their male peers and they were more successful than some contemporary male artist. And there's the example of an Italian artist who supported her 11 children and her husband was sort of the manager of the household because she was so talented that she entirely dedicated herself to creating art and selling art. So there have always been these artists, they've always been around, but when it's funny. But the thing is the story of museums. For a really long time, the curatorial positions were reserved to men and men highlighted on the walls, the works of male artists. And since we're starting to see more and more women in curatorial position, they're trying to reshape that narrative as well by putting the works of women artists who are in storage in the reserve of the museum on the wall, why not take off one Monet from the wall to put America set instead? And you still have plenty of Monets to see. So that's just an example, but I find that it's really important to show as well the chronological evolution and how they had to fight to own recognition. There's another really good example, and I'm sometimes trying to show it at the National Gallery of Art because two women who worked at the same time in the 18th century in France, their names are the famous Élisabeth Vigée Le Brun, who was the favorite painter of So extremely successful, extremely well known. And there was another woman named Adela Le Guar, and they were both extremely successful, extremely talented, and the press at the time tried to really mount them against each other and put them in competition when the fact is they didn't need to be in competition. Both of them had their own set of clients and they weren't competing against each other. But it's almost as if men were jealous of their talent and their success that they tried to, instead of showcasing that they were trying to pit them against each other. As our tour progressed, I was really impressed with, you had the story and the narrative that you are following, and you had a lot of very well researched information that you shared, but when something popped up that was interesting, you'd say, oh, that reminds me of this thing. And then you were completely fine with going off in a slightly different direction and saying, well, this is an example of this and I found that really powerful. And in part I think it may be due to this vast wealth of knowledge that you have about different pieces of art because the ability to turn on a dime and say, well, let's go to this gallery and look at this piece because this is an example of something that we've been talking about. I think that speaks to the level of experience and education that you have. So talk to me about what prepared you to do the work that you're doing now. I studied art history and the art market. I first started in Paris where I was very involved in the art market. The school I studied in was we had classes for three days and two days where we were in internships. So I worked with auction houses and painting experts. And then I entered the collection. Well, I entered an internship with the curator manager of a private collector with a rich collection of everything. And that was probably the best training I could ever have. And I ended up staying with her who acted up as my mentor. Really. She trusted me with responsibilities that went far beyond what an intern would do. And we had this trusted relationship where I would bid at auction on behalf of the collector and would do a lot of tasks that wouldn't traditionally be assigned to an intern. And it was just both of us. And really being in that environment for three years shaped my eyes and my taste as well. And I researched on some of the pieces that were in the collection and I pursued that internship while doing my master's degree with the Nstitute, which is, which is a sort of chapter of the rb, but it's much more oriented on the research. So from when I was doing my master's there, I was invited to research a lot, so it might have been more limited. I took a seminar with Michelle Pastor on the medieval period, but my dissertation tutor was specialized in the Italian Renaissance and specially in architecture of the Italian Renaissance. So I did specialize at that point, and I really enjoyed being able to dig in some very specific subjects. And this in a way prepared me to what I now, when I prepare a new lecture that I will deliver, I find it extremely important to bring very well researched subject. I like to show images that people wouldn't necessarily find in a book by going and trying to find archival documents. And so that's what I like to bring to people. Some people might find that these subjects I bring in lectures or topics that I will bring in. The tours are very niche, but they enjoy that because most of my guests or audience that I have when I do the lecture are extremely open-minded, and I'm extremely thankful for that because people don't want a script. People are eager for me to go with the flow. And that's what I like to do when I'm in the museum leading a tour. If we're discussing something and I think about, oh, just make me think about this subject. If there is an example that I know about in the museum, I'll take you there. It's fine if we do a little detour. We don't have to follow a script. I have at the beginning. I know I have an idea of the pieces I want to show you, but I like that sort of improvisation during the tour. And that is also what makes my work extremely rewarding. It's never the same. And I like to really personalize it for every guest that comes rather than have the same experience over and over again and sort of recite the same blurb every single time. No. So I have that sort of red line that I think of showing you, but then we go with the flow and in the lectures that's similar, so it's a little harder to go outside of the topic. I do my lecture following slides on PowerPoint, but I always reserve time at the end for a Q and A because people will have questions, people will have thoughts and will also share, this makes me think of this piece that I've seen or this artist that I know that works with glass or depending on what the lecture topic was. So it's never the same and this is what I like. Well, for me, it was effective both in the moment and also moving forward because you brought us to a room that had still lives in it, and you were showing us the insects that were part of these individual pieces that were still life's and then the flowers and you explained some of the background. And I do not have a background in art history or really any sort of art. So for me, still life really wasn't that interesting. Before you showed us and then you were talking about what these things were, some of the symbolism behind it. And that in the moment really captured my interest. That was one thing that I found to be fascinating, something that I hadn't seen as interesting before. But another thing we talked about was the history of color. And following up in our conversation, you said there's this book and it's about the history of the color red. And I've been reading about the history of the color red. I didn't even know that was a thing that you could read a book on the history of the color red. And so what I loved about our interaction with you Tosca was that you generated these connections while you were with us, but also after you met with us, that continued on and continued to keep me reading about art. Yes. And this is also going back to what we were saying about how most of my guests are very open-minded, and I see that people, at some point I consider teaching art history in school, but then I realized maybe in school, in the traditional path, like in high school or people might, they're forced to listen and they might not want to be hearing that they might not, it might have been, they might not want to be here. And being able to do what I do and guide inside museum, the guests that are coming are eager to learn and are open-minded. And that's always a great start because whatever we're going to go through, I will think of some references that I am able to share with you. And I always like to follow up after my tour and give some recommendation of so that you can learn more about some of the subjects we discussed together throughout the tour so. When we were looking at the Renaissance paintings and talking, I think we started talking about the color blue because we were looking at paintings of classic image of the Renaissance, which is the virgin and child. And that's when I started talking about the different symbols and how people who were not literate would understand paintings that were presented to us, to them and to us now. How did people read them if they didn't have the knowledge and the background? Well, they knew who was who because of how they were depicted, and most use the same template over and over again. And the Virgin Mary is often pretty much 90% of the time, depicted wearing blue and red. And that's when we started talking about the history of colors and how it's not just about choosing blue for blue. Blue symbolized purity and grace and also the divine in some ways. But blue wasn't always accepted as a positive color because it was until the medieval period blue was considered to be a color associated with the barbarian world. And simply that goes beyond just how it was perceived, but how colors were used. And we're talking about colors, we have to talk about pigments and what pigments were available during the antiquity. Well, the Romans were using mostly red because this is the color that they had available and that it also referred to the marble, the stone, the por fury red that they were using. And blue instead on the opposite was a color that was mostly used by what they would call the barbarian tribes because this is what they had on hand as a natural pigment to dye clothing. So it's a lot of things to consider, and this is why when we're talking about paintings, the history of colors and the symbols conveyed by colors also has a place there. I like to bring these little things, these little anecdotes in my tours because it's something that will captivate the audience and that goes far beyond just what you see, but what's behind it and all the thoughts that went into making this painting. And why would a painter pick a color over another? There was always a reason. It wasn't just a random choice. We talked about your formal education and also the education you received practically while you were working, but your earlier years were also formative when you were growing up, you enjoyed many of the things about essentially being part of two very different places in Europe. So talk to me about growing up and talk to me about how that sparked your interest in art. Absolutely. So I grew up in France for the most part. This is where I received my education. I grew up in the northeast of France in Rings, which is the champagne region. And my dad is Italian, and so we always had a connection with Italy. So he is actually from Sicily, but Sicily is not where I spent most of the time growing up. So the school system in France is very different than what you have in the us. We tend to be in school for the whole day, but we will have several two weeks breaks during the year, a week and a half around the end of October, beginning of November, two weeks for Christmas, two weeks what we call the winter holidays around March and two weeks for Easter in the spring, and then two to three months during the summer. And for a lot of these holidays, I was lucky to be going to Tuscany at the border with And during the summer growing up, before we were going on such a regular basis throughout the year, we were mostly going in the summer, and my parents were eager to discover what was around. And since I was five years old, I was basically going into all the museums with my parents. And I don't think I've ever found a museum to be boring. And I just was eager to learn and read as much as possible. And something to note is that when I was very little, I wanted to be an archeologist because I was fascinated by older, ancient civilization. Egypt was fascinating, and maybe that was because I was able to go to the Louvre. My parents would take us to Paris and we would go and visit museum. In particular, I think the Louvre and visiting the Egyptian section of the Louvre was absolutely fascinating for a little child to see all of these artifacts and understand what they wer. So I remember reading a lot about all ancient civilization and little by little just turned for a wider love of history and art in general. And my father would wanted me to pursue scientific education and probably become a doctor. My grades in any scientific subject were not good enough, and I was just simply not interested. And I wanted to learn more about art history. And so I pursued that route. And after working in nine to five jobs in galleries or auction houses, when I moved here, I realized I wanted some freedom, which is why I created Art With Tosca. And I really wanted to reconnect with the subject of art history, which is very different from being in the art market. But yeah, leaving in these two places in France and Italy exposed me to different cultures. And I think I had probably more of an interest for the Italian Renaissance simply because of that exposure to Florence and all of the villages in Tuscany. And I guess a fascination for the Medici. And I remember going in museums in Florence and just really absorbing it all and being fascinated by how a family put all of these collections together. And that has probably informed why I'm so interested in the history of collecting. Looking at art through that perspective is always something I find extremely interesting, rather than just looking at an art period. But looking at how someone put a collection together, the artists that the Medici sponsored by their patronage is always something that fascinates me and how they created this collection that you can now see in some of the most important museums of Florence, and not just the art and artifacts you can see in the museum, but also the architecture, how they created these beautiful cities by hiring architects. And when you're looking at these buildings, they are art itself. And it's not just what you see outside, but it's what's inside. It's really how everything was considered altogether. The architect was building the structure, but let's look at what's inside and all the artists that they've invited to paint frescoes and do a whole cycle that's completely fully integrated in the building and tells a story as well. I'm glad that you brought up patronage and the arts because one of the things that you did with us when you first brought us in was to bring us into the room with these large portraits of the patrons that had really contributed to the National Gallery. And so we work with a lot of artists. And so when they create their art, the intention is that somebody bring their art home, put it on the wall. And art is, it's very important not only to love art and support art through the love of art, but also to make it possible for artists to create art. And we do that by supporting artists and by supporting the arts. So talk to me about your very intentional decision to start in the room with the patrons of the Yes. I always start in that little room called the Founder's Room that a lot of people don't know about and wouldn't necessarily even go to or don't even see it on the map of the museum. I start there because I always find it essential for people to understand how a collection was put together. Who is behind the idea of that museum? How was it founded? How did it come up to be the museum it is today? And that founder's room does exactly this by putting up the portraits of who made this museum possible. And the National Gallery of Art was created by Andrew Mellon, who, unlike other collector of the beginning of the 20th century, created their museum with their only soul collection and called it by their name. The idea of Andrew Mellon was to give a museum for the American people, and probably that's why he called it National Gallery of Art, rather than calling it the Andrew Mellon collection. And for anyone who has been to the National Gallery of Art, you have seen the scale of that museum. There's no way the collection of just one individual could feel all of the room. He really had the ambition to create a large museum that would serve entire generations for the future, to appreciate art for visitors, but also to protect the work of artists. And not just deceased artists, but also artists that are alive. So Andrew Mellon was the founder, and at the time, what he collected was mostly artworks by deceased people. This is what he gave to the National Gallery of Art. But now one of the most important aspect and role of the National Gallery of Art is to still collect and purchase the work of living artists so that they are entering the national collection of art because they're part of the national identity of So they're making a real effort in collecting the work by living American artists or recently deceased American artists, to be able to showcase them and preserve them for the future generation. So they are always making an effort to present these works to the public as well. There was recently an exhibition, a very important retrospective of the work of Elizabeth Catlett, who was an artist who worked a lot with woodcut and printing. And that was just a fascinating exhibition. And they're doing everything they can to promote the work of artists, whether it's artists from the past or living artists or deceased artists. But that idea of patronage is core to what I do. The idea of provenance as well behind the work we look at sometimes the provenance of a painting is extremely important and shows the patronage behind it, who commissioned a piece and who owned it afterwards until it got to the museum. And these stories that are sort of behind the scenes are sometimes extremely important to how we understand that piece because that piece could also not be here. It was this idea of collecting and patronage and giving is important because it's intentional. This idea of giving to a public collection for people to enjoy is extremely intentional. And it talks about philanthropy of someone and their generosity in trying to make art accessible to everyone because this is one thing to note, the National Gallery of Art is not part of the Smithsonian, and yet it remains free to the public, which is not the case of a lot of museums in America. And that aspect, the fact that it's free was also one of the core ID of Andrew Mellon. He wanted it to be free for people to be able to just walk in and appreciate the art for everyone really. There's no reason why someone would not enter. You cannot even bring that financial aspect. I understand why some people would not go to the Met because there is an entrance fee, but really at the National Gallery, you can go in, spend 20 minutes or just go to one room and come back another time. So that's really important. And also seeing that legacy, it was really one of the core principle when he founded the National Gallery of Art, and it remained an important part of the National Gallery of Art. A lot of the other donors and patrons of the National Gallery of Art were extremely generous. And what we see at the National Gallery of Art on the Wall is only a small portion of what the collection holds. But I know you also do online work. I know that you've been to one of Maine's national parks, which is Acadia. So if you're ever in Maine again Tosca, I'd like to invite you to the Portland Art Gallery because it would be great to show you our version of art. It's really been a pleasure to speak with Tosca Ruggieri, who is an independent art historian and also the owner, founder, and really the heart and soul behind Art by Tosca. Thank you so much for being with us here today on Thank you so much for having me. And yes, go on artwithtosca.com and feel free to sign up to a newsletter if you want to be kept in the loop about all these other events that I have that are not necessarily in Washington DC but online with Art lectures. And thank you for having me, and I would gladly take you on this offer. And next time we're planning a trip up to Maine, I'll stop by. It will be definitely on our list. Well, we look forward to seeing you. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle. You have been listening to or watching Radio Maine, our video podcast where we explore and celebrate creativity and the human spirit. I encourage you to learn more about the work that she's doing and really take advantage of this wealth of knowledge that she brings to the art world. Thank you.