From Combat to Calm: Mike Keighley's Journey Through Trauma-Informed Yoga

Lisa Belisle: Hello. I am Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to or watching our video podcast, Radio Maine, where we explore and celebrate creativity and the human spirit. We are brought to you by the Portland Art Gallery in Portland, Maine. Today it is my great pleasure to speak with Mike Keighley, who is the Chief Yoga Officer for Archangel Yoga. That's very intriguing. Just to start, thanks for being here, Mike.

Mike Keighley: Hey, totally. I appreciate the invite. Appreciate you having me, and this is absolutely a beautiful space here.

Lisa Belisle: Yeah, thank you.

Lisa Belisle: So Chief Yoga Officer. I love the idea that this is the thing that you're connecting yourself to in a really big and leading way. I'm going to commit myself to being the Chief Yoga Officer. Talk to me about why yoga is so important to you.

Mike Keighley: I grew up in Cincinnati and wanted out of Ohio, no offense to Ohio, but I think a lot of people want out. And so I ended up at University of Maine 2002 to 2006, and I always knew I wanted to go into the army. Did army ROTC, completed that, always wanted to fly, went into the army, became a pilot, accomplished that, and following flight school immediately went to Iraq. While I was in Iraq, found out, hey, as soon as we get home, we're going to be home for a year and then we'll go to Afghanistan. And Afghanistan was a fairly rough deployment for me.

After that I had another deployment to Kuwait and transitioned to cybersecurity and got out of the army after a little over eight years. And when I left the army, it's interesting because I was so excited to experience freedom and I was so excited to get out. And then once I got out, it was almost like this freedom was overwhelming. It was just like, I don't even know what to do now. One of the things on my business card, or for my business, is community, identity, and purpose, because that's really what I felt like yoga brought me. And those are the things that, I spent my entire formative adult years in the army. That was my identity, that was my purpose, that was everything. And I struggled really, really badly when I left the army and I ended up in Las Vegas. I had no community, was in a job I wasn't really enjoying.

I didn't really have a purpose. I didn't know who I was and what I was doing and what I wanted to do. And fortunately I had the opportunity to move back to Maine. It's funny, my ex-girlfriend in Las Vegas when I was really struggling was like, you should try yoga. Why the hell would I ever do yoga? That's not going to do anything for this. So I was really self-medicating quite a bit with alcohol and on antidepressants and not in a good spot. And when I moved back to Maine, it was funny because one of the coworkers was like, "Hey, you should try yoga." And immediately I was like, "Yeah, why not?" And so I went to this yoga class and afterwards I was like, that was really weird, this breath work and meditation stuff. But I was like, I feel better. I don't really know what better means, but I feel better.

And so I kept going and that became my Tuesday/Thursday thing, and I started to sleep a little bit better. Emotional regulation was a little bit better, physically felt better, and I just kept going. And then eventually the woman that ran the studio was like, "Hey, there's a teacher training coming up. You should go through it." And again I was like, why the hell would I teach yoga? That is not in my life plan. I'm not a yoga teacher. So getting back to the point of your question, I really started to notice these benefits for me and I started to learn more about the science of it. And I was like, if this can help me, then this can help other people. And it's just been an interesting journey because all these doors just kind of opened on their own.

I didn't really chase anything. When I finished teacher training, the next thing was Sue, the woman that ran the studio, was like, "Hey, we're looking for somebody that wants to volunteer and teach at the Kennebec County jail for a substance use disorder program." And I was like, I don't know anything about jail and I don't really know much about substance use disorder, but yeah, sure, it's an opportunity to teach. And then taught there for a year and a half, maybe two years, and super impactful. And then got connected with Travis Mills Foundation to teach out there for their retreats for veterans and first responders. And the more I dove into, between the jail and working with other combat veterans and going through more trainings and learning more, and also my own practice and seeing how this impacted me, it was just like, yeah, this is truly beneficial stuff that pretty much saved my life. And I think it can save a lot of other people. So I have my day job, which I'm passionate about, but I'm also extremely passionate about how can I help this veteran community? And also just in general bringing yoga to communities that may not necessarily traditionally do yoga or may have their stereotypes, the myths of how they view yoga should be or what it is. And so it's really resonated with me to share that with people.

Lisa Belisle: It strikes me that you describe wanting to get out of Ohio, and by the way, I need to loop back and say I know people from Ohio. It's a lovely state.

Mike Keighley: It is a lovely state. And I'm not trying to bash Ohio.

Lisa Belisle: Absolutely not. You and I are on the same page. Ohio is great. People who live there, if you want to live there, great, but you wanted to get out.

Mike Keighley: Correct.

Lisa Belisle: But then you got into the military and you were like, in, and then you're like, okay, I think it's time to get out. And you get out and you're like, wait, what's out? What does it mean? And so this interesting struggle between the safety of structures and the feeling trapped by structures and the damage that structures can cause. It's an interesting back and forth. It sounds like that's played out in your life.

Mike Keighley: I've really made that connection. So that's interesting you point that out. I think structure is incredibly important. That's where I think the struggle has been, in terms of finding my own structure. Because growing up and then in the military, obviously you're kind of told where to go and when to be there and what to wear. And it's funny, even when you get out and you're getting ready to go to a civilian job and you have to go shopping for clothes, it's like, well, what do I wear? How do I dress as a normal person not being told what to wear? And also being able to make those choices. I remember in Las Vegas it really took my dad kind of giving me this push because he knew how miserable I was. And he was like, you've always wanted to end up in Maine. Why don't you move to Maine? And it's like, oh, I can quit. I could actually quit this job and I could actually move. I don't need to wait for somebody to tell me to do that or have some other thing occur that makes me do it. I can actually make this choice. And I still struggle with that. But yeah, it's been difficult to find my own structure.

Lisa Belisle: Yoga is very interesting because you really are working with the structures of the body. The body knows how to exist, it just intuitively knows how to exist. And when we work against the body, then it moves us down a path of disease. We move with the body using yoga and other techniques. You're just giving your body the chance to do what it does normally.

Mike Keighley: At the same time, I think that's also been one of the struggles when I first started doing yoga. And I think a lot of people, it can be nice to go to a class and you're kind of told what to do and you can check out or check in, which is really, I hate to say should, but checking in with where you're at. So that's one of the things, with also separating PTSD and that sort of stuff, it's this disconnection from your body. So it definitely takes time to connect back with your body and even listen to, like you said, what does my body need? What do I need mentally, physically, and how can I go after that? And so it's been a struggle sometimes with my personal practice, where at home, yes, I'll do videos, but one of the things I've really tried to work on as well is, what if I just go onto my mat and what's my body asking for?

Is it asking for more power yoga, which I teach as well, really enjoy it? Or is today more of a restorative day, or is it just kind of a gentle day? I enjoy working out in other ways too, and so am I sore in certain areas? Do I really need to focus on this one area? And so it's a great way to connect with yourself and find those physical sensations in your body and identify, what's it asking for? What do I need today, what do I need right now? And actually give it that. Because I think a lot of times we're so used to feeling like we need to do something because somebody's directing us that way, which even happens in yoga classes. And that's a big thing of the trauma-informed yoga aspect I try to bring, is giving people options. Just what one person is feeling, or what I'm telling somebody to do, it may not resonate with them. And so again, with that freedom of choice, strongly encouraging people in these classes, just because I'm telling you to do child's pose, if you're not feeling that, don't do it. You're allowed to make that choice for your body and see where you're at today and what you need. So choice is really a powerful thing.

Lisa Belisle: Talk to me about the trauma-informed aspect of the work that you do, because I think this is something that people in the healthcare community probably have somewhat more of a sense of what this is, but I don't know how many people have connected the dots between trauma-informed work in yoga and, for example, trauma-informed care in healthcare.

Mike Keighley: Like I said, choice is one of the big things. When you look at trauma, on a basic level, choice was taken away. Whether it's combat, if I'm strapped into a Chinook flying in Afghanistan, I can't get away from that. I have to stay there. And same thing when you look at sexual trauma, choice is taken away. And so what also tends to happen is, again, that disconnection that starts. You disconnect from yourself, and then when you disconnect from yourself, you tend to disconnect from your family and your friends and your community and you tend to isolate. As far as teaching it, a big focus is also the nervous system. There's nervous system dysregulation, where that sympathetic, that fight or flight mode and the body's really activated and stays active sometimes for years. So there's these core components of it. You want to be invitational with your language and give people options because, again, choice was taken away.

These people weren't given a choice and they may not know how to make a choice. They may not know how to listen to their body because they're disconnected. And so typically I'll start classes with just grounding, working through breath work, getting them to notice their breath in their body, and then from there into more grounding, typically through the five senses. And so if you can at least start to get nervous system regulation going on, then from there working into, let's play around with this pose, and then coming up with modifications and adaptations, because I work with a lot of amputees and spinal injuries and traumatic brain injury. And so stuff won't always fit for everybody's body. But also just in the aspect, again, of choice, if you're not liking this, here's another way that you could maybe do this thing to hit the same area of the body.

Or if you're not feeling this at all, feel free to just lay down and breathe. And again, it's invitational with language. It's really making sure that people feel like they have an option, they have a choice. And the other thing too, you look at the set up of the room. A lot of classes you go to, there's going to be rows where people are going to be behind and focusing on where the doorway is. So making it so that everybody is facing the door, hopefully in one row, or maybe kind of an arc so they can see everybody in the room. And then it's also, as soon as they come in the room, if there's closets, if there's windows, if there's noises, HVAC, anything, if there's people that are going to be walking by, telling them, hey, these are the things that you can expect, again, for that nervous system regulation so that they can get that.

And so once you start to get them settled, I think people are more able to listen to their bodies and identify what's going on in their bodies so that they can make those decisions. The other aspect I would say is, yoga, it's viewed as this solo practice, and it is, but at the same time I think there's incredible power. A lot of times if we're doing just a reclined twist, we'll do one side, and then when I go to the other side, verbally ask the group, and you can answer this out loud or you don't have to answer, but does anybody notice, does this side feel different than the other side? And you get some people raise their hand or say yes. And then it's, okay, well where in your body does this feel different? How does this feel different? And again, you can answer that out loud or you don't have to answer that out loud.

It's interesting to see. Then some of the guys and gals start to joke with each other about, oh, you feel that here? That's weird. I feel this thing here. And so it's cool to see them communicating and talking and sharing what's going on in their bodies. And at the same time, again, it's forming that connection internally where they're actually able to feel and start at this base level of identifying where there may be, even if it's discomfort or pain, at least they're noticing and they're aware of what's happening in their body. And when you get people grounded and present, again with that nervous system regulation, if the mind is focused on what's happening in the body in the present moment, then at least it may just be that brief moment, even if it's just for a few seconds, where if they're constantly in anxiety about what's coming up or they're constantly ruminating about the past, it gets them out of that and breaks that cycle to get them present into their body. And it's interesting because the word yoga comes from the word yoke, which means union. It's connecting. And again, at a base level, oftentimes I'll describe PTSD as a disconnection. It's that disconnection from yourself, friends, family, and community.

Lisa Belisle: Mike, you've worked with two groups that I've also intersected with as a physician. And I've found that it broadened my perspective of the world really very early on, working as a medical director for a jail. That was one group that I was surprised to understand. I think the larger culture in a different way, that people, it's not them and us, these are all of us. And these people happen to be in a building that has bars around it. And for safety purposes, that's where they are. But we're all the same and we're all damaged the same. And we've had a broad variety of experiences. In the veterans, when I worked for the VA, working with the veterans, similar kind of broadened my perspective of the world. There are so many people who are veterans, and I know you're aware that I have a family of military, including a son-in-law that works on Chinooks currently.

Mike Keighley: Fellow Chinook guy.

Lisa Belisle: Exactly. With the military, and also I have a brother that served multiple times in Afghanistan. But having never been in the military myself, never been impacted except sort of from an adjacent standpoint, it wasn't until I worked with veterans and I said, these are us, and they're all walking around out in the world. You don't know that they are a veteran necessarily. But it would rain, and the days that it rained, the veterans from Vietnam would not show up because they were so triggered by the sound of rain that they couldn't get in their car and come to the appointments. And that's just one example of many that I was struck by working within the Veterans Administration as a physician. So for me, just understanding humanity better, and understanding what we are all sometimes trapped by and how we are so impacted. But yet we walk around in the world and nobody really knows what our backgrounds are. Nobody understands what we're dealing with in our minds on a regular basis or in our hearts. So how has your view, as you work in healthcare now for your day job, how has your view of humanity been shaped by your past experiences, would you say?

Mike Keighley: I think it's really interesting that you said them versus us. I was talking with my girlfriend about that last night. We have differing political viewpoints, but we both agree that there tends to just be this overgeneralization of different populations and how we view them. And we do tend to, instead of viewing everyone on this planet as an us, we've kind of become very divided in some ways where it's them, that's not one of us. And I would say initially, especially the jail, again, not knowing anything about jail, not knowing anything about substance use disorder before going in there, I definitely had my opinion of these people, of them. And then once I got in there, it was just like, these are normal people. They're humans. They made mistakes. I've made mistakes. And then diving deeper into it, again, I'm not an expert on jail or substance use disorder, but largely trauma is this background thing. I don't know that there is addiction without trauma.

And then looking at some of my own behaviors or my relationship with alcohol, seeing that it's entirely possible I could have gone down the same path, that could be me. And so I guess the other aspect of it is having the experience of going to Iraq, going to Afghanistan, and seeing, especially Afghanistan, it's this really interesting dynamic where you see the absolute best in humanity in terms of what people are willing to do for each other. And then you also see the worst of humanity in terms of what people are willing to do to other people based on beliefs and maybe what we're told about other populations. And so I guess it's maybe kind of cliche, that statement of, you never know what somebody else is going through, but it's true.

Most of us, you see on social media, people smiling and having a good time, but you don't know what's actually going on in the background. I've lost a good amount of friends to suicide. I've been there myself in the past in terms of thinking that way. And so yeah, compassion I would say has been one of the focal points. Self-compassion, but also compassion for other people, and really trying to just understand that I don't know why this person is acting this way. I don't know why they're angry about this thing. You don't know their background, you don't know what they've been through, and it's not an excuse for poor behavior. But at the same time, I think it goes a long way to try to understand where somebody's coming from and what their background is and where they've been and what their story is.

So overall, compassion I think is probably the biggest takeaway in terms of seeing these different populations and seeing the struggles. And one of the things I also talk with the veterans about, I encourage them. As veterans, we tend to, and I think this may be true with other populations, we tend to stick with our own. And so we sometimes try to compare our struggles, like, my struggle's worse, I went through this. And I don't know that there's any comparison. Because there's people that never served in the military, that were never in jail, that didn't have substance issues, but maybe they lost a parent or a child to cancer. Everybody has their struggles. And so it's interesting when you get out there and you start talking with people and opening up, and they're getting other people to open up, and whether they have your background or any background, you start to learn about these struggles that people are going through. And it's realizing that there's this common humanity where we all have these struggles. We all have our stuff and our things, and it shows up in our daily lives. So it's just understanding that.

Lisa Belisle: Why Archangel?

Mike Keighley: So when I got out of the army, one of my bucket list items was through-hiking the Appalachian Trail. The reason I got out was because I had done three deployments in five years, and I was supposed to go on my fourth shortly after I got home from Kuwait. And that's when I kind of lost my mind a bit and was like, I need to get out. And so the timing just happened to work out. Once I put in my paperwork, I was like, oh, shoot, I could start. If people start in March, I'll be getting out late February. I could totally do this. And so just started doing more research and everything lined up.

So while you hike the Appalachian Trail, typically people go by trail names. Nobody really uses their government name, I guess. And so I was in Hot Springs, North Carolina, having dinner with some random hikers, and there was a hiker from France, and he was like, what's typical conversation, what's your name, what did you used to do for work? Nobody has a job. And I was like, well, I'm Mike, and I was in the army. And excuse my poor French accent, but he was like, oh, St. Michael, Michael's archangel. And I was like, yeah, I guess. And then some of these younger hikers at the table were like, that's a badass trail name. You should take that. And I didn't have one. And somebody tried to give me the trail name Payday earlier in the day. I found their Payday candy bar.

And I was like, I'm not going by Payday, that's ridiculous. Archangel was much more cool. So Archangel became my trail name. And then I got connected with a veterans organization up in Maine when I was finishing the AT, called the Summit Project. They're based out of Portland, and so people can carry stones for fallen service members. And so having lost my best friend, roommate in college and James, when I was in Afghanistan, and then in 2012 I think it was, Jay Brainerd, another friend of mine, he was an Apache pilot, he was killed in Afghanistan, they had stones for them. When I was finishing the trail, there were days where I was hiking and I was just bawling my eyes out. And so I reached out to James' parents. The end of the AT was at Katahdin with James, and talked with his parents.

And then this grew into this thing where I was like, okay, well I'll get the stones for Jay and James and I'll carry those the length of Maine on the Appalachian Trail. And so through doing that, got connected with some of these other gold star families, families that have lost a service member. And they knew my trail name was Archangel. And so when I was moving back to Maine, Betsy Hutchins, her and her husband Jeff lost their son Andrew several days actually after James, after I lost James. So when I was moving back, Betsy was so excited, we'd only met once, but she was like, you can stay here while you find a place to live. And also she sent me a link to a license plate, and she's like, Archangel, R-K-A-N-G-L.

And I was like, all right, cool. And so I got that as my license plate. And then once I started teaching, I was like, well, what do I name my business? And I was like, Mike's Yoga, I don't know. So then I was just like, well, what about Archangel Yoga? And so it's been this thing that from the AT followed me a bit. And then also I was raised Catholic, and when I was confirmed in eighth grade we had to choose a saint. And I think largely because my name was Michael, I chose St. Michael, but then it's interesting because it's also the patron saint of military and law enforcement. So it just all tied together, bridging this gap between this spiritual aspect of things and then also this military service aspect of things into this one entity.

Lisa Belisle: And the Archangel is sort of a protector.

Mike Keighley: Not big into practicing Catholicism at this point, but I still go occasionally to church. But yeah, the Archangel that's fighting the devil, fighting those battles. And so yeah, very much a protector, again, patron saint of military and law enforcement.

Lisa Belisle: And I love that you are also in IT security.

Mike Keighley: Yes.

Lisa Belisle: For your day job. And you work in healthcare, so clearly you're fighting the battles on all fronts still. And also apparently helping fight your own battle internally, if there still exists, which I'm assuming it might, just because a lot of these things don't go away.

Mike Keighley: Yeah.

Lisa Belisle: Are there ever moments of clarity for you where you think, okay, here I am, and this is good, just now, just being right here, right now?

Mike Keighley: That is also a struggle. I think it's a struggle for a lot of people, and that's where I think the practice of gratitude is huge. Recently I went to my first silent retreat, so I showed up on a Wednesday evening and then it ended Sunday morning. So four-ish days of not talking. And it ended up being, everybody I think thinks, it was down on the ocean in Cushing, it was this beautiful location, and I think everybody is probably like, man, I could really use a break, that'd be wonderful. But when you actually put down the phone, there's no TV, there's no talking, and you're just there with your thoughts, it was really illuminating to me just how my mind latches on to what is going wrong. Is my house burned down right now? Is my cat okay? I just basically started freaking out. And I remember when I was driving home, I was crying and just this overwhelming sense of gratitude for, holy crap, I live in a place where everybody vacations. I have this beautiful house, I have this great job that I love, I love my boss, I love the people that I work with, I love the community that I'm in. I have amazing friends. I have this awesome cat. I have this great girlfriend who's incredibly supportive and so kind.

Yeah, that for me, I think it kind of goes in waves. I think sometimes we get wrapped up in our daily lives and rumination and anxiety and what's going wrong. And for me though, that was really this shock to my system of, dude, you've got it. You've got great family, you've got everything going on. It's an amazing life, amazing things to have. So in terms of moments of clarity, that I would say definitely, that silent retreat, as unpleasant as it was, the after effects, it definitely sparked that moment of clarity, like you said.

Lisa Belisle: Now, would you say that you are feeling less imprisoned, imprisoned by Ohio, imprisoned by the military, imprisoned by teaching in a jail? Do you feel like at this point the walls are down and you can exist just as you are in the world?

Mike Keighley: For the most part. It's interesting because authenticity is definitely, when I go through core values, authenticity is definitely up there. And I always try to be authentic when I teach and at work and all of that. Obviously there's still left and right limits in terms of what you can do and say and how you act and all these sorts of things. But largely, yeah, I will say I definitely still have, I think in terms of yoga teaching and at work, a bit of imposter syndrome. One of my biggest things that I've talked with numerous people about with my yoga teaching, I'll finish these classes and be with a group of guys or gals for a week, and then they're like, I never thought I'd do yoga, this is really great, what's your YouTube channel? And I'm like, yeah, there's definitely still a wall in terms of me getting content online or using Instagram to post things. So yes, largely in my overall life, do I feel much more freedom and able to make decisions and make choices and go after what I would like? Yes. Do I still have moments where I struggle with that? Absolutely. And that example I just gave being one of them. But yes, largely I do feel incredibly settled and grounded with where I'm at.

Lisa Belisle: I'm thinking about something that I think Michael J. Fox said about being kind of in this knife fight with himself in a closet, where essentially he's just in his own closet and he's attacking himself, that kind of internal struggle, which for him I believe was related to his Parkinson's, but maybe also other issues. But for you, it's the sense that you have all the things you've moved towards, you're still embodying, and it's still a practice. You still are showing up in your own mind every single day. So I love that for you, because you've just said, I'm authentic and I still feel like an imposter, and the next step for me is this thing, and I need to move through this thing. And that's kind of the current knife fight in the closet.

Mike Keighley: As far as the knife fight in the closet, that's a great analogy. I think in terms of that knife fight, that self-compassion has been probably the most impactful thing for me. And as humans in general, especially at least from my experience with veterans and first responders, and I can only speak from my experience, but as a military officer, there's just kind of this constant expectation of perfection where if somebody in my platoon got a DUI over the weekend, I'm going to be the one getting the phone call, going to talk to the commander, why did this happen? How did this happen? Did you give a safety brief? What could I have done? What did I not do to prevent this person from doing this thing? And as an aviator, you need to be on time to the LZ for this infill or this exfill or this resupply, and there's really not much margin for error in some of the flying you're doing as well.

So it's this buildup and this expectation that everything needs to be perfect. And then you carry that on into your personal life. And I remember when I was first introduced to self-compassion, I started seeing a psychologist at the VA who was absolutely amazing. And I was running late to one of these appointments early on, and I was leaving work and I was speeding. And I called her freaking out, and she was like, are you okay? And I was like, yeah, I'm fine. And she was like, where are you? And I was like, I'm on my way, I'm sorry I'm late. And she was like, are you speeding? I was like, yeah. And she's like, okay, well this isn't that big of a deal, just slow down. In my mind this is a big deal, I'm late to this appointment. And when I got there, she was like, hey, so your homework assignment is, I want you to find things that are important to you but not critical. And I want you to intentionally be late to something that's important to you. And I want you to see if you can be okay with yourself and give yourself compassion and understanding for being late.

And I still try to find opportunities, or sometimes an opportunity creates itself where I'm running late, and then it's like, okay, this is an opportunity for self-compassion. And it was super interesting how I didn't really notice how it impacted my relationships with others. My ex-girlfriend, I remember we were getting ready for a wedding, and I've told this story numerous times to people, it was just super impactful for me. We're getting ready to go to this wedding. She always took forever to get ready, and she always looked great, but I remember she was getting ready and taking so long and we were late. And I remember standing behind her in the mirror and just basically verbally going after her, like, are you ready yet? What's the deal here? Speed it up, we're late, we need to go. Berating her, basically. And it wasn't until afterwards, realizing, holy crap, this is what's going on internally for me. This is how I'm treating myself. I'm carrying this expectation for other people, and there's really no need to. This person's just trying to look beautiful to go to a wedding. And here I am attacking them because of my own stuff. And so that really lit off this light bulb of just how we treat ourselves is how we're treating other people. And so really paying attention to, what are the words that I'm saying to myself? How am I judging myself? How am I critiquing myself? And then noticing when this carries out into the rest of the world, into my daily life, am I holding these expectations for other people?

Lisa Belisle: And of course, to kind of fold the metaphor back on itself, you're looking in the mirror.

Mike Keighley: Yeah.

Lisa Belisle: She's there, but you're actually looking at your own self in the mirror.

Mike Keighley: Yeah.

Lisa Belisle: It's very powerful.

Mike Keighley: Yeah. I really like the fact that you use the word practice. These are things that we continue to practice. Yoga is a practice, and I think sometimes that gets lost, where we don't focus in on that word practice with so many things in life, maybe self-compassion being one of them. But we're really just practicing all these things in our daily lives, interacting with other people. Each conversation could be viewed as a practice. And I think a lot of times we go into it, we view it as it needs to be perfect, not a practice. And no, we're just practicing everything on a daily basis, every moment. It's basically just a practice.

Lisa Belisle: Well, when you get your YouTube channel up and you're practicing, send it to me. I'd like to see it. I suspect your practicing is going to be very powerful to watch, even if in your mind it's not perfect, it's just practice. But sometimes other people's practice is our perfect. So putting that out there in the world, maybe it'll have its own specific benefit to you and others.

Mike Keighley: I absolutely think it will. It is interesting how the practice of yoga, for me, doing my own practice was beneficial. And then teaching has just been this whole other world that's opened up, where I almost feel selfish for teaching because I'm like, man, I feel great. Sometimes I'll feel like crap and be like, I don't want to teach, I don't want to do this class. And then afterwards I'm just like, God, I feel so much better. So yeah, offering that out, but then also knowing that I have had people reach out that are like, hey, I like your style, I'd like to continue to do your class. And so it's one of those boundaries I need to get through. And happy to get you the YouTube channel once it's up.

Lisa Belisle: Yes. At this point, it's not if, it's when. You've already committed. So we've all heard, everybody out there listening to our show Radio Maine knows that Mike Keighley, who is officially the Chief Yoga Officer for Archangel Yoga, he has committed to putting something on YouTube.

Mike Keighley: Correct.

Lisa Belisle: And whenever that is, there's no pressure. So I invite you to send it back to me. I invite you to send this out into the world. And when that happens, I will certainly share it because I think people who are listening today will, if they're anything like me, they will find the work that you do to be very compelling. So I hope that you continue it.

Mike Keighley: Yeah, absolutely. Plan on it.

Lisa Belisle: It's been a pleasure. I've really enjoyed talking to you today, Mike.

Mike Keighley: Yeah, I again totally appreciate you having me on and appreciate the opportunity. And really good conversation, and helping, asking good questions, helping me think.

Lisa Belisle: Well, thank you. And you helped me think too, so it's a mutual learning and practicing session we've just had today, which I really appreciate.

Mike Keighley: Yeah.

Lisa Belisle: Thank you very much.

Mike Keighley: Thank you.

Lisa Belisle: I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle, and you have been listening to or watching Radio Maine. I've been speaking today with Mike Keighley, who is the Chief Yoga Officer of Archangel Yoga. I suspect you're going to be seeing more of Mike in years to come. Certainly when his information comes back our way, we will pass it out into the Radio Maine universe. But in the meantime, I'm hoping that maybe we can convince Mike to come to one of our Portland Art Gallery openings, which happen on the first Thursday of every month in Portland, and join our wonderful art and creative community. You've been listening to or watching Radio Maine, and I hope you've enjoyed exploring and celebrating Mike Keighley and his creative spirit today. And I look forward to connecting with you in the future, Mike.

Mike Keighley: Definitely happy to attend one of the art galleries, and yeah, thank you again.

Lisa Belisle: Yeah, we'll see you there.