Camden Talent Group Founder Melissa Coulombe

Lisa Belisle: Hello, I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to or watching Radio Maine. Today I have with me in the studio Melissa Coulombe, who is the owner of the Camden Talent Group. Thanks for coming in today.

Melissa Coulombe: Pleasure to be here. Thank you very much.

Lisa Belisle: I'm interested in the work that you do because I don't think I've ever interviewed anyone who has this particular company.

Melissa Coulombe: It's unique, and my path to get there was interesting. By trade, I'm a lawyer, and when I was practicing, my kids were very young and I was finding it difficult to have a balance of spending time with my family and making those memories, but also practicing. So I went off and did a couple of other things to have some better balance to my life, but nothing that was really speaking into my soul or making me excited.

So fast forward, and I was able to find this position working with somebody else as a legal recruiter, combining my legal knowledge with my sales experience. And then towards the end of Covid started my own firm, which is the Camden Talent Group that I've had for two years now.

Lisa Belisle: Most people weren't starting businesses during Covid, so that's an interesting decision that you made.

Melissa Coulombe: True. I always knew I wanted to do it, and the way things kind of worked out in terms of how we were working with that previous business at the time, and then with different opportunities in the market at that time, the timing was right. That was the right time to do it. So I took advantage of that and made a bold decision to do it, and I'm really happy I did.

Lisa Belisle: So what particular talent are you looking for, and to whom are you bringing this talent?

Melissa Coulombe: So I focus on high profile partner placements, lawyers primarily in Boston and Washington DC, and I do have a couple of employees that are focusing on some different markets, bigger cities such as Boston and DC, and see if partners are unhappy with their current employment and if they want to look around to make a move to another law firm.

Lisa Belisle: Did you have connections in Boston and DC that caused you to feel like these were the markets you wanted to focus on?

Melissa Coulombe: I think I'm comfortable there because I'm familiar with those markets, as opposed to, say, San Francisco or Houston or something like that. But once you know a market, they're all relatively similar. So it's easy to be able to go out to other cities and do the same kind of work now that I'm established in a couple of larger ones and have had some good trajectory and groundwork.

Lisa Belisle: Tell me about your sales experience.

Melissa Coulombe: So it started with a Lewiston based company called Geiger, and it was promotional products. I was able to kind of see what it feels like to have all of the opportunity to find these great customers and clients, and the sky could be the limit with what you could sell and make. That was really exciting for me, so that always kind of stayed with me.

Lisa Belisle: When I think about these two areas, sales and law, neither one of those is easy. Both of them require that you actually have some fortitude, some willingness to be rejected, some interest in engaging in some amount of conflict at times, I would think. So it's interesting to me that you sort of enjoy both of those and want to bring them together.

Melissa Coulombe: So I'm the oldest of six kids, so that could speak something of who I am. Definitely type A, but also very goal-driven, persistent and determined. So I think that those qualities put together have helped me to be successful.

Lisa Belisle: I'm the oldest of 10. And so I can relate to what you're saying. I think you're probably right that there is also maybe even a little bit of an expectation that as the first one, you're going to be a role model, and your parents haven't made all their mistakes yet, so they're going to start them out on you. Not that they made any mistakes with you.

Melissa Coulombe: And I think my parents have said that they probably didn't make mistakes with me, but that was their opportunity as the first one.

Lisa Belisle: Right. You're just going to make it, because you are the first one. You're the one that everyone's looking to.

Melissa Coulombe: Yes. That's absolutely right.

Lisa Belisle: Where did you grow up in Maine?

Melissa Coulombe: I grew up in Lewiston, and that's kind of an up and coming community. That's a lot of changes over the last few decades, taken a couple of turns. I think it's got a bad rap over previous years, but I do feel like it could be changing and coming back around. When I grew up there, I thought it was a great community and I loved it. I haven't been there in a very long time. My mom still lives actually in the house we grew up in, but I haven't been a part of the community for a long time, so I can't speak to really what it's like now.

Lisa Belisle: I'm just assuming that even when you were growing up there, it was a community that was beginning to go through transitions. Way back in the day it was sort of a mill town, and we had the Irish Catholics and the French Catholics, and they were the sides of town. And then different other groups have kind of come in. But it also was known for sports. It was known for hardworking families. What was your experience?

Melissa Coulombe: Absolutely. I saw the mills were being transformed to host restaurants and other facilities and retail. So that did change. My family had a business that I think helped to even put Lewiston on the map because it was a large international distillery. They employed a lot of people, and being able to interact with numerous, various people of the community was a cool experience.

Lisa Belisle: And do you think that even back as far as your family is concerned, maybe that also influenced your willingness to start your own business, to be an entrepreneur, to work for yourself?

Melissa Coulombe: Absolutely. The family was very supportive of making sure that their business was successful and each other as it was growing. So I was able to see how rewarding that was, and also that the way they started this and the extent that they built it was pretty amazing. So knowing that was a possibility was always intriguing. So I think so, for sure.

Lisa Belisle: And I do think there is something about that in Maine. There is that opportunity, because there's a few major employers around the state, but then other than that, we have a lot of very motivated and creative individuals who are trying to find a path for themselves that makes sense for themselves and their families.

Melissa Coulombe: Definitely.

Lisa Belisle: I'm interested in the legal profession. My only background in the legal profession is multiple family members in this field, so I claim no personal knowledge of this whatsoever. However, in watching this over the years, it seems like there's been a transition in employment opportunities coming out, and the way that law is even practiced now with remote work. What types of trends have you seen?

Melissa Coulombe: So personally, part of the reason I left the law was, in Maine I was experiencing that the firms were still run kind of old school in that the partners were looking to the younger associates and saying, I had to do my time, you're going to have to do your time. So when I had asked, and this was over 20 years ago, for a flexible work arrangement, that was just not even something that they would discuss. So fast forward now, and I think the firms have had to pivot as a result of Covid because so many people proved how successful they were working independently and remotely. However, I think that's also challenging because the younger associates need these mentors in place that they can just pop into their office and ask for guidance. So it's been a tricky balance, but they are more flexible, because I think to capture talent, be it a long-term partner or somebody that's just graduating, they have to be able to be more accommodating and flexible, because that's what people are expecting.

Lisa Belisle: And when you're working with firms that are trying to bring in partners, what are the types of attributes they're looking for, the skill sets that they're looking for for the partners?

Melissa Coulombe: Definitely entrepreneurial people. And most of the firms say that culture is the most important piece for them. So they look for people that are collegial and collaborative, do cross-selling, but can also really promote the firm, active members of their communities and the bar associations, that really will be able to enjoy the work environment, promote it, be there long term.

Lisa Belisle: And then on the other side of things, when you're reaching out to potential partners, what types of things are causing people to reevaluate their current work situation and what they would like to have next?

Melissa Coulombe: Well, that's funny, because these partners for the most part are saying the culture of their firm has changed and they are looking for a better culture and a better fit. More collegiality a lot of times, or unfortunately one of the bigger reasons is the lack of support. So to speak to what we were just speaking about with the flexibility of the firms, younger people coming in, I don't think, want to bill 2300 hours a year. So firms are having a lot of trouble finding the depth to support the partners, and then partners will try to go to another firm to see if there's a better opportunity with that.

Lisa Belisle: It's interesting as you're talking about this, that I see a lot of parallels between this and medicine. It's another group of highly educated, highly motivated individuals, particularly physicians, if we're talking about the kind of in the realm of clinicians. And because I do a lot of hiring for our workplace, I hear the same sorts of things, and we're looking for the same sorts of things. We are also in our organization working with a national search firm, which has been kind of interesting because they come in and they say, what would you like? And everybody, the board gives them their set of requirements, senior leadership team, everybody else. They go out, they interview all these candidates, they narrow them down, they bring them back. And we're in the process of interviewing these candidates for this very high level position. It's fascinating to see how well they've been able to carry through what we need, and to see what the actual fit is. How do you work on creating that fit, making sure that you're understanding what both sides are looking for so that they match?

Melissa Coulombe: I would never bring a firm somebody who, say, they're billing like $500 an hour, but the firm is looking for somebody to be billing a thousand dollars an hour, because there's just no way that they can increase rates to match that. So I think it's really important for me, just like your search firm people, to know my client firms so that I can speak to my potential partner candidates intelligently about the firms that make sense for them, and then go to my firms with credible candidates that are aligned. Because if I just start throwing things against the wall, I'm not going to have a good reputation and people aren't going to want to work with me. So being able to really understand what the firm wants in terms of the profile of the person, for instance, but also just across the board, what it looks like to be at that firm in terms of hours and bill rates and things like that.

Lisa Belisle: Have there been any circumstances where you've seen things either work out particularly well with somebody that you brought in, or maybe really didn't work out at all? And have you learned lessons from either one of those situations?

Melissa Coulombe: Well, thankfully every partner I've placed is still in place, so I think that that's worked well. But the beginning of the year has been pretty tough for me in that I've had a number of partners with offers that they didn't take, and they went to another firm that I wasn't working with. So that's been tricky. And so reflecting on that, I just think, did I ask enough questions to get them to be transparent about really where they were in the process with regard to this other firm? And did I push the firm hard enough to be efficient with their process, to keep the partner engaged and happy? With those kinds of circumstances, I've certainly looked back to see how I could have done it a little different, changed the outcome. And I probably couldn't have, but that's the nature of the beast.

Lisa Belisle: Well, in the time that I've been hiring physicians to work for our organization, we've seen the pace just dramatically increase. So our expected turnaround is very, very fast. If we get a name of somebody, we immediately reach out to that person. We immediately schedule interviews, we immediately work with our recruiting team. And it really just has to be fast. There can't be any delay. That's one thing that I think has shifted somewhat from when I started. And then the other thing that I've seen is people are using the opportunity to kind of entertain multiple offers. So it may not be that they actually want to come work with you, they might actually be just seeing what they can get so that they can use it as a bargaining tool somewhere else.

Melissa Coulombe: I've seen that just with regard to the partners going back to their firm where they currently are and saying they have this offer. But it's really a tedious process that they go through. It takes months, and they fill out extensive financial information and meet with numerous people, fly here, fly there. So just to do that for an offer, that's typically not the end game.

Lisa Belisle: Well, that's good to hear. The people that we've worked with that are kind of doing this, it actually is something where we will put something out there and then we won't hear from them for a very long time. They won't say no, but they'll kind of have it lingering out there. So maybe it's just a human nature thing.

Melissa Coulombe: Well, I definitely have a couple of those currently, the waiting for other firms. But it makes sense. They want to see the process through to the end to make sure they've done all their due diligence. And I encourage them to do that, because in the end, I want them to know that I'm on their team and want what's best for them.

Lisa Belisle: So when you're looking at multiple factors, it seems to me that we've moved towards a lot of, and what you've described is a lot of quantitative things. You can look at billable hours, you can look at billing rate, you can look at things that you can actually put numbers around. What are the types of qualitative things that you're trying to assess that maybe could be a little challenging?

Melissa Coulombe: One is, for instance, how responsive this person is, the candidate, in terms of turning around availability or the documents that they need to complete. Because the firm interprets that as kind of like their rate of response as a level of interest. So that's a big one. And then just the feedback of the engagement, the actual, be it zoom or physically in person, how engaged they are, just to show it as a personality piece, how they're going to be as a fit for the whole firm.

Lisa Belisle: Have you ever run across situations where people in person are far more or less comfortable than they are in the virtual space?

Melissa Coulombe: Unfortunately, I have not met a lot of my candidates in person, so I can't determine that necessarily. Because the feedback I get from the firms may not be the same as a different firm. So I'm not really certain about that. I'm sure it happens.

Lisa Belisle: Well, even that is very interesting, because that suggests that it really almost doesn't matter when you first start out how you interact in person, you have to be really good just to make it through that first point. You have to be really good in the virtual space.

Melissa Coulombe: Right.

Lisa Belisle: So that's something that I wonder how many people maybe before five years ago had the skill set to do. And also the setup to do it. That's also interesting, because I know when my son was applying for residencies in emergency medicine, he just had his little medical school apartment. He had to create a little blank wall and move his bookcase over and at least have a nice shirt and tie. I mean, this is just a medical student who had not a lot of means. So he had to get very creative, because he wasn't the only medical student interviewing in the last few years during Covid where that was the case.

Melissa Coulombe: Right. Well, thankfully he's part of a creative family.

Lisa Belisle: That's right. He had tools. That's absolutely true.

So I hope you won't mind that I'm going to kind of out you a little bit, in that you bought one of our artists, a Carlos Gamez de Francisco, just the other day. I hope it's okay that I'm saying that, because I am fascinated by that. I love his work, and also it's incredibly unique. So I'm wondering what it was about him and this piece that attracted you.

Melissa Coulombe: I love how simple it was, yet very unique, in that there was a woman standing there, just looked super confident, just kind of like, here I am. And didn't even have to show her face because she had this really bright, florally, almost like a hat on. And she was so confident to be able to exude who she was without even showing her eyes. So I loved that there wasn't a lot of necessarily color or things going on there, because my normal pieces that I tend to gravitate to are landscapes. I have this beautiful piece that I bought in Bar Harbor and it's kind of like the idyllic Bar Harbor coastline. So this was very different. And Emma was showing me a few things, and then she was like, how about this? And I was like, oh my gosh.

Lisa Belisle: So why do you think that, given that it sounds like you have some more traditional pieces with landscapes and Maine scenes perhaps, why do you think that this caught your eye?

Melissa Coulombe: Well, I was looking for a specific space in my house, a little more understated with the colors.

Lisa Belisle: So it sounds like it was a good fit for what you needed at that time.

Melissa Coulombe: Yes. But also interesting that you're choosing this figure that is a confident woman. And my daughter, so I have twins that are 21, and my daughter is very, very much like me. She gets up, she's 21, and I don't know very many 21 year olds that do this, and goes to the gym every day at five thirty. And she's very determined to get good grades and be on Dean's list and just have everything buttoned up and done. And so she lives with me while she's finishing school. And she saw the piece, she was like, oh my gosh, this is great. So I think it just spoke for both of us.

Lisa Belisle: I also have two daughters in their twenties, and one of them also really loves the Carlos pieces. It's very interesting because I do think there is a little bit of a mother daughter pull to that. But I also love that with his pieces, he does have this sort of fanciful thing that he does with birds and nature and flowers. So you can kind of have both at once.

Melissa Coulombe: Definitely.

Lisa Belisle: What would you like to see your firm and your life look like, say in five years? Where do you hope to be?

Melissa Coulombe: Well, I hope to continue to build my team, started doing that this year. I don't know, like probably ideally take my foot off the gas, but my personality I don't think will let me do that. Because even as building my team, the more success I have, the more success I'm going to want to have. So wow, I just haven't even thought about where in five years.

Lisa Belisle: Well, I'm thinking, because my youngest is 22, so for me, the next phase of my life looks really different than the last 20 something years have looked like. So I didn't know if this is something that you've been pondering at all.

Melissa Coulombe: I am really grateful that I had the opportunity to start this business, because I feel like I was always just kind of going up and down, chugging along, trying to find a good space that gave me the financial freedom to do what I wanted to do and the flexibility. And now I feel like I'm there. So if I can just kind of ride in that even space for a while, I'll be so happy.

Lisa Belisle: That seems reasonable. Why did you call it the Camden Talent Group, given that you don't live in Camden?

Melissa Coulombe: Love Maine specifically. Love Camden. That's it. The Auburn Talent Group or Lewiston Talent Group would not sound as good. So it rolls off the tongue.

Lisa Belisle: It does. Sounds like it was meant to happen.

Well, Melissa, I really appreciate your taking time out of your very busy schedule to come and talk with me about this. And maybe somebody who's watching who's an art lover will be interested in either investigating the Camden Talent Group, or maybe they can investigate one of our Carlos pieces at the Portland Art Gallery. But don't get the two little ones that are still there, because Melissa has her eye on them.

Melissa Coulombe: I've really enjoyed my conversation with you today, and thank you so much. I do too. And I think for me in particular, I just love thinking about how you're harnessing your creativity to do something that I really didn't know very much about, but you're doing it right here in Maine.

Lisa Belisle: It's really amazing actually to hear about all of these little unique businesses that people have and are running, so that they can stay here and take advantage of everything that Maine has to offer.

Melissa Coulombe: Yes, I agree.

Lisa Belisle: I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle and you have been listening to or watching Radio Maine today. My guest is Melissa Coulombe, who is the owner and founder of the Camden Talent Group. I encourage you to reach out to Melissa if you happen to be a partner looking for a new gig somewhere in the Washington or Boston or Portland or any place really, to see if this is a good fit for you. And also maybe go to the Portland Art Gallery website and look into one of our Carlos Gamez de Francisco pieces, but not the two little ones, because those are apparently on hold. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Melissa Coulombe: Thank you.