Camden Talent Group Founder Melissa Coulombe

Today I have with me in the studio Melissa Colom, who is the owner of the Camden Talent Group. Thanks for coming in today. Pleasure to be here. Thank you very much. I'm interested in the work that you do because it's not, I don't think I've ever interviewed anyone who has this particular, um, company. Yeah, it's, um, unique and my path to get there was interesting. Um, by trade, I'm a lawyer and when I was practicing, my kids were very young and I was finding it difficult to have a balance of spending time with my family and making those memories, but also practicing. So went off and did a couple of other things to have some better balance to my life, but nothing that was really, you know, kind of speaking into my soul or making me excited. So fast forward and I was able to find this position working with somebody else, um, as a legal recruiter. And so combining my legal, um, knowledge with my sales experience. And then towards the end of Covid started my own firm, which is the Camden Talent Group that I've had for two years now. Well, most people weren't starting businesses during Covid, so that's an interesting, um, decision that you made. True. Um, I always knew I wanted to do it and the way things kind of worked out in terms of, um, how we were working, you know, with that previous business at the time, and then with different opportunities, um, in the market at that time, the, the timing was right, that was the right time to do it. So I took advantage of that and made a bold decision to do it, and I'm really happy I did. So what particular talent are you looking for and to whom are you bringing this talent? So I focus on high profile partner placements, so lawyers primarily in Boston and Washington DC and, uh, I do have a couple of, um, employees that are focusing on, uh, some different markets, bigger cities such as Boston and DC and see if partners are unhappy with their current employment and, um, if they want to look around to make a move to another law firm. Did you have connections in Boston and DC that, um, caused you to feel like this was, these were the markets you wanted to focus on? I think I'm comfortable there cuz I'm familiar with those markets as opposed to say, you know, like San Francisco or Houston or something like that. But once you know a market, they're all, you know, relatively similar. So it's easy to be able to go out to other cities, um, and do the same kind of work now that I'm established in a, you know, a couple of larger ones and have had some good trajectory and groundwork. Tell me about your sales experience. So it started with, uh, Lewiston base company called Geiger, and it was promotional products and I was able to, you know, kind of see what it feels like to have all of the opportunity to find these great customers and clients and, you know, the sky could be the limit with what you could sell and make. And that was really exciting for me, you know, so that always kind of stayed with me. When I think about these two areas, sales and law, neither one of those is easy. Mm-hmm. , both of them require that you actually have some, some fortitude, some willingness to be rejected. Mm-hmm. some interest in, um, I guess engaging in some amount of conflict at times. I would think so. It's, it's interesting to me that you sort of enjoy both of those and wanna bring them together. So I'm the oldest of six kids, um, so that, you know, could, could speak something of who, you know, my personality, who I am, uh, definitely type A, but also very goal-driven, persistent and, um, determined. So I think that those qualities put together have helped me to be successful. I'm the oldest of 10 . Okay. And so I, I can relate to what you're saying, . Yes. Um, and I, I think you're probably right that there is also maybe even a little bit of an expectation that as mm-hmm. the first one, you're gonna be a role model and your parents haven't made all their mistakes yet, so they're gonna start them out on you. Not that they made any mistakes with you. And I think my parents have said that they probably didn't make mistakes with me, but that was their opportunity as the first one. Right. So, I mean, and you're just gonna make it because you are the first one, right? Like, you're, you're the one that everyone's looking to, so Yes. Mm-hmm. . That's absolutely right. Um, where did you grow up in Maine? I grew up in Lewiston, and that is, uh, that's kind of an up and coming community. That's a lot of, a lot of changes over the last few. Yeah, I think it's few decades taken a couple of turns. Um, I think it has a, you know, has got a bad rap over, um, previous years. But I do feel like it, it could be changing and coming back around, but when I grew up there, I, I thought it was a great community and I loved it. Um, I haven't been there in a very long time. I, my mom still lives actually in the house we grew up in, but I haven't been a part of the community for a long time, so I can't, you know, speak to really what it's like now. I'm just assuming that even when you were growing up there, it was a community that was beginning to go through transitions that it, I mean, back in way back in the day it was sort of a milltown and we had sort of the Irish Catholics and the French Catholics, and they were sort of the sides of town. And then, um, different other groups have kind of come in and, but it also was known for sports. It was known for, um, you know, hardworking families. I mean, what was your experience? Yeah, absolutely. Um, I saw, you know, the mills were being transformed to host restaurants and other, you know, facilities and, and retail. So that did change. Um, my family had a business that I think helped to even put Lewiston on the map because it was a, um, a large international distillery. And, um, so being able to, so they employed a lot of people, um, and being able to interact with, you know, numerous, various people of the community was, um, a cool experience. And do you think that even back as far as your family is concerned, maybe that also influenced your willingness to start your own business, to be an entrepreneur, to work for yourself? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, the family was very supportive of making sure that their business was successful and each other as it was growing. So I was able to see how rewarding that was and also that, you know, the way they started this and to the extent that they built it, was pretty amazing. So knowing that was, you know, a possibility. And so that was always intriguing. So I think so for sure. And, and I do think there is something about that in Maine. I mean, there, there is that opportunity because there's a few major employers, you know, around the state, but then other than that, we have a lot of very motivated and creative individuals who are trying to find a path for themselves that make sense for themselves and their families. Yeah, definitely. Do you think, um, well, I'm interested in, in the legal profession, so I'm gonna, I'm, I have my only, um, background in the legal profession is multiple family members in this field. Mm-hmm. . So I claim no personal knowledge of this whatsoever. However, in watching this over the years, it seems like there's been a transition in kind of employment opportunities coming out and the way that law is even practiced now with remote work. What types of trends have you seen? So, personally, you know, part of the reason I left the law was in Maine, um, I was experiencing that the firms were still run to kind of old school in that, you know, the partners were looking to the younger associates and saying, I had to do my time. You're gonna have to do your time. So when I had asked for, for instance, and this was, you know, like over 20 years ago, a flexible work arrangement that was just not even something that they would discuss. Um, so fast forward now, and I think the firms have had to pivot as a result of covid because so many people proved how successful they were working independently and remotely. However, I think that's also challenging because the younger associates need these mentors in place that they can just pop into their office and ask for guidance. Um, so it's, it's been a tricky balance, but they are more flexible and, um, you know, because I think to capture talent, be it a long-term partner or somebody that's just graduating, they have to be able to be more accommodating and flexible because that's what people are expecting. And when you're working with firms that are trying to bring in partners, what are the types of, um, attributes they're looking for, the skill sets that they're looking for for the partners? Um, definitely entrepreneurial people. And, you know, most of the firms say that culture is the most important piece for them. Um, so they look for people that are collegial and collaborative, do cross-selling, um, but can also really promote the firm, um, active members of their communities and the bar associations well that really will be able to enjoy the work environment, promote it, be there long term. And then on the other side of things, when you're reaching out to potential partners, what types of things are causing people to reevaluate their current work situation and what they would like to have next? Well, that's funny because these, um, partners for the most part are saying, you know, the culture of their firm has changed and they are looking for a better culture and a better fit. Um, more collegiality a lot of times, or, uh, unfortunately, uh, one of the bigger reasons is the lack of support. So I think, um, you know, to speak to what we were just speaking about with the flexibility of the firms, um, younger people coming in are, I don't think, you know, wanna bill 2300 hours a year. So they're having, firms are having a long lot of trouble finding, um, the depth to support the partners, and then partners will try to go to another firm to see if there's a better opportunity with that. It's interesting as you're talking about this, that I see a lot of parallels between this and, and medicine. Mm-hmm. , I mean, it's another, um, it's another group of highly educated, highly motivated individuals, particularly physicians. If we're talking about the kind of in the realm of clinicians and I, because I do a lot of hiring for our workplace, um, I hear the same sorts of things. And when we're looking for the same sorts of things, and we are also in our organization working with a national search firm, which has been kind of interesting because they come in and they say, what, what would you like? And I think everybody, the board gives them their set of re requirements, senior leadership team, everybody else, they go out, they interview all these candidates, they narrow them down, they bring them back. Um, and we're in the process of kind of interviewing these candidates for this very high level position. And it's fascinating to see how well they've been able to carry through what we need mm-hmm. and to see what the actual fit is. How do you work on creating that fit, making sure that you're understanding what kind of both sides are looking for so that they match, you know, like I would never bring a firm, somebody who say they're billing like $500 an hour, but the firm is looking for somebody to be, to have, be billing a thousand dollars an hour because there's just no way that they can increase REITs to match that. So I think it's really important for me, just like your, um, search firm people to know my client firms so that I can speak to my, the potential partner candidates intelligently about the firms that make sense for them. And then go to my firms with, you know, credible candidates that are aligned. Because if I just start throwing things against the wall that I'm not gonna have a good reputation and people aren't gonna wanna work with me. Um, so I think, you know, being able to really understand what the firm wants in terms of the profile of the person, for instance, but also, um, just across the board, what, what it looks like to be at that firm in terms of, you know, hours and bill rates and things like that. Have, have there been any circumstances where you've seen things either work out particularly well with a, with somebody that you brought in or maybe really didn't work out at all? And have you learned lessons from either one of those situations? Well, thankfully every partner I've placed has is still in place. Um, so I think that that's worked well. But, uh, the beginning of the year has been pretty tough for me in that I've had a number of partners with offers that they didn't take it and they went to another firm that I wasn't working with. So, um, so that's been tricky. And so reflecting on that, I just, you know, think, did I ask enough questions to get them to be transparent about really where they were in the process with regard to this other firm? And did I, you know, kind of push the firm hard enough to be efficient with their process, to keep the partner engaged and, um, happy with those kinds of circumstances? Have certainly looked back to see how I could have done it a little different. It changed the outcome and I, you know, I probably couldn't have, but that's the nature of the beast. Well, in the time that I've been hiring physicians to work for organization, I mean, we've seen, um, the piece just dramatically, um, increase. So, you know, our turn, our expected turnaround is very, very fast. So if we get a name of somebody, we immediately reach out to that person. We immediately schedule interviews, we immediately work with, um, our recruiting team. And it really just has to be fast. There's, there can't be any delay. That's, that's one thing that I think has shifted somewhat from when I started. Um, and then the other thing that I've seen is, um, people are using the opportunity to kind of entertain multiple offers. So you may not always be, it may not be that they actually want to come work with you, they might actually be just seeing what they can get so that they can use it as a bargaining tool somewhere else. Mm-hmm. , um, I've seen that just with regard to, um, you know, the partners going back to their firm where they currently are and saying they have this offer, but it's really a tedious process that they go through. It takes months and they fill out extensive financial information and meet with numerous people, you know, fly here, fly there. So just to do that for an offer, I don't think, you know, that's typically not the end game. Well, that's good to hear. And the people that we've worked with that, um, are kind of doing this, it actually is something that will, we will put something out there and then we won't hear from them for, for a very long time. They won't say no, but they'll kind of have it kind of lingering out there. Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . So I, maybe it's just a human nature thing. Well, I definitely have a couple of those currently, um, you know, and the waiting for other firms to, but it makes sense. I mean, they wanna see the process through to the end to make sure they've done all their due diligence. And I encourage them to do that because in the end, I want them to know that I'm on their team and want what's best for them. So when you're looking at multiple factors, it, it seems to me that we're, we've moved towards a lot of, and what you've described is a lot of quantitative things. You know, you can look at billable hours, you can work at billing rate, you can look at things that you can actually put numbers around. What are the types of qualitative things that, um, you're trying to assess that maybe could be a little challenging. One is, for instance, how responsive this person is, the, you know, the candidate in terms of turning around, um, availability or, uh, the documents that they need to complete. Because when the, you know, the firm interprets that as kind of like their rate of, of response as a level of interest. Um, so, you know, that's a, that's a big one. And then just like, kind of like the feedback of the engagement, the actual be it zoom or physically in person, um, how engaged they are, just to show it kind of as a personality piece, how they're going to be as a fit for the whole firm. Have you ever run across situations where people in person are far more or less comfortable than they are, um, in the virtual space? Um, unfortunately I don't re I have not met a lot of my candidates in person, so I can't, um, determine that necessarily. Uh, you know, because the feedback I get from the firms may not be the same as a different firm. So I, I'm not really, I'm not certain about that. I'm sure it happens. Well, I mean, and even that is very interesting cuz that suggests that it really almost doesn't matter when you first start out how you interact in person, you have to be really good just to make it through that first um, point. Um, you have to be really good in the virtual space, right? Right. So that's something that I don't, I wonder how many people, um, maybe before five years ago had the skillset set to do. Right, right. And also, um, the setup to do it, you know? Yeah. That's, that's also interesting cuz I, I know when my son was applying for residencies in emergency medicine, he just had his little medical school apartment. He had to create like a little, a little blank wall and like move his bookcase over and like at least have a nice shirt and tie and like that for him. I mean, this is just a medical student who had, you know, like not a lot of means. So. Right. He had to get very creative mm-hmm. because he wasn't the only medical student, you know, interviewing in the last few years during Covid where that was the case. Right. Well, thankfully he's part of a creative family, right. So That's right. He had tools. That's right. That's absolutely true. . Yes. So I hope you won't mind that. Um, I'm gonna kind of out you a little bit and that you bought a, one of our, um, artists, Carlos Gamos difference. Oh, I just did the other day. Yes. Yes. I hope it's okay that I'm saying that because I, I am fascinated by that. I, I love his work and also it's incredibly unique mm-hmm. . So I'm wondering what it was about him and this piece that attracted you. Um, I love how simple it was yet very, um, unique in that, you know, the, there was a woman standing there just looked super confident, just kind of like, here I am. Um, and didn't even have to show her face because she had this really bright florally, um, you know, almost like a hat on. And she was so confident to be able to exude who she was without even showing her eyes. Um, and I, so I loved that there wasn't a lot of, um, necessarily like color or things going on there because my normal pieces that I tend to gravitate to are landscapes. And, um, I have this beautiful piece that I bought in Bar Harbor and it's kind of like the idyllic Bar Harbor coastline, you know, so those are, so this was very different. And um, Emma was showing me a few things and then she was like, how about this? And I was like, oh my gosh. So why do you think that, given that you are, sounds like you have some more traditional pieces mm-hmm. with landscapes and main scenes mm-hmm. perhaps. Why do you think that this caught your eye? Well, I was looking for a specific space in my house a little more, you know, un understated with the colors. So it sounds like it was a, it was a good fit for what you needed at that time. Yes, yes. But also interesting that you're choosing this, this figure that is a confident woman mm-hmm. . Yeah. And my daughter, so I have tw twins that are 21, and my daughter is very, very much like me. Um, you know, like she gets up, she's 21, okay. I don't know very many, 21 year olds that do this and goes to the gym every day at five 30. And she's very, uh, you know, determined to get good grades and be on Dean's list and like, just have everything buttoned up and done. And so she lives with me while she's finishing school. And so, you know, I th and she saw the piece, she was like, oh my gosh, this is great. And so I think, you know, it just spoke for both of us. I also, I have two daughters in their twenties and one of them also really loves the Carlos pieces. And it's, it's very interesting because I do think there is a little bit of a, um, a mother daughter thing. Mm-hmm. , a mother daughter, pull to that. But I also love that with his pieces, he, he does have this sort of fanciful thing that he does mm-hmm. with birds and nature and flowers. And so you can, you can kind of have both at once. Yeah, definitely. What would you like to see your firm and your life look like, say in five years? Where do you hope to be? Well, I hope to continue to build my team started doing that this year. I don't know, like, you know, like probably ideally take my foot off the gas, but I, my personality I don't think will let me do that. So, because I think, you know, even as building my team, the more success I have, the more success I'm gonna wanna have. So, uh, wow. I just, I haven't even thought about where in five years. Well, I'm just, I'm thinking because my youngest is 22, so for me, the next phase of my life looks really different than the last 20 something years have looked like. Mm-hmm. . So I didn't know if this is something that you've been pondering at all. I am really grateful that I had the opportunity to start this business because I feel like I was always just kind of, you know, going up and down, chugging along, trying to find a good space that gave me the financial freedom to, you know, do what I wanted to do and the flexibility. And now I feel like I'm there. Um, so if I can just kind of like ride in that even space for a while, I'll be so happy. Yeah. That seems reasonable. Yeah. Why did you call it the Camden Talent Group, given that you don't live in Camden? Love Maine specifically? Love Camden. That's, that's it. I think the, you know, like the Alma Talent Group or Lewiston Talent Group, which would not sound as as good. So it rolls off the tongue. It does. Sounds like it was meant to happen. Yeah. . Well, Melissa, I really appreciate your taking time out of your very busy schedule to come and talk with me about this. And, um, maybe somebody who's watching who's an art lover will be interested in either investigating the Den Talent Group, um, or maybe they can investigate one of our Carlos pieces at the Portland Art Gallery, but don't get the two little ones that are still there. Cause I might don't get the two little ones that are still there that are Carlos's because Melissa has her eye on them. . But I've, I've really enjoyed my conversation with you today and thank you so much. Yeah, I do too. And I think it's, for me in particular, I just, I love thinking about how you're harnessing your creativity to do something that I, I really didn't know very much about, but you're doing it right here in Maine. Yeah. It's, it's really amazing actually to hear about all of these little unique, um, businesses that people have in our running and so that they can stay here and, and take advantage of everything that Maine has to offer. Yes, I agree. My guest is Melissa Kuk, who is the owner and founder of the Camden Talent Group. I encourage you to reach out to Melissa if you happen to be a partner looking for a new gig somewhere in the Washington or, um, Boston or Portland or Portland or any place really to see if this is a good fit for you. And also maybe go to the Portland Art Gallery website and look into one of our Carlos Gez de Francisco pieces, but not the two little ones, , because those are apparently on hold. , thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you.