Breaking the Mold: Shannon Richards' Company, Hay Runner, Reimagines the Home Building Process

Lisa Belisle:

Hello, I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to or watching Radio Maine. Today I have with me in the studio the founder and owner of Hay Runner, Shannon Richards. Thanks for coming in today.

Shannon Richards:

Thanks for having me.

Lisa Belisle:

I'm really intrigued by your company because you and I have known each other for a while, and I know that this is kind of an evolution of the work that you've been doing for many years, and it sounds like you're really in a building phase.

Shannon Richards:

Definitely. It's very much a building phase. I'm all in.

Lisa Belisle:

Well, what is Hay Runner?

Shannon Richards:

Hay Runner is a company that combines real estate. So on paper, upon first blush, on the surface it is real estate design, construction and maintenance services or handyman services. And then if you go down a little deeper, there's some subtle, it's a place for artists to find a landing spot. It's a place for growing and for maybe some unconventional activities to come together in a design build company. So that's some of the stuff we're nurturing right now.

Lisa Belisle:

That's a lot.

Shannon Richards:

It is.

Lisa Belisle:

So what caused you to move out of just a building space or just a real estate space and think I need to do something more comprehensive?

Shannon Richards:

Such a great question. So I have a sculpture degree, I have an arts degree. And the way that I look at it is I'm really just not fulfilled doing one thing. The things that bring me the greatest satisfaction is collecting things to bring together and creating something from that. Creating something from nothing is the hardest thing you can do. Doing it well is that much harder, right? So I always feel a sense of accomplishment when I can pull together things that really work together and create something that typically functions. So I've created this business that in some ways is a tool for bringing together these different subjects that need to be together, I think in a lot of ways, to work successfully. And that's gratifying. I was just saying to Caleb this morning, my partner, it's still so much of a build moment. I really look forward to a time when it's not just surviving, but thriving. And I know that's coming, which is exciting.

Lisa Belisle:

So give me an example of something that you're working on. If I'm watching or listening to this interview and I'm thinking, okay, I kind of get it, I get the concept, but I really need to dig into this a little bit more. What's an example of something that people might understand?

Shannon Richards:

Well, let's say that you had a little project in your house. You guys have built a great house here and you've been taking care of it, and it's like 15, 20 years old. And you think, I need somebody who understands the value of what we've already done, but it's something that's maybe a little bit smaller or quirky, and you probably need a permit for it, but there's some talent that you need. A lot of the really great builders out there are doing new construction as they should be. They're doing a fantastic job. So there's a real hole in the market there. That's just one aspect of it. And then in addition to that, a real estate component, having somebody and a company that understands designing, and when I say design, I mean planning, the understanding of permitting, that whole middle that puts these pieces together. So finding somebody or an entity that understands the real estate side of things and has a license and can advise and be an expert, it really does feed, they all feed together. Do you know what I mean? And the markets, the way that they go up and down, it's nice to have that cushion of, okay, these spike in the spring, these dip, so you've got the ability to ride the wave. And it's not as much of a feast or famine.

Lisa Belisle:

How did you move from your interest in art and the degree that you got that was art focused toward real estate?

Shannon Richards:

Great question. So I think the reason I have real estate is I started as a very young person in restaurants. At the time it was all cash and it was tips, and I was a waitress, and you kind of understand how to service somebody. What is it that they're looking for? They might not want to spend a lot of money. They might want to spend a little bit, they might want to spend a lot. How do you understand very quickly what it is that's going to satisfy their needs at this moment? I put myself through school doing that. And then even as a young business person, brokering was something I was constantly doing. So you become expert at selling and understanding. Somebody comes to you, they have a need. You have to understand, do I have something that could fulfill that need? So having a real estate license is nice because it allows me to have that control, that information, and the ability to get from A to B much quicker than if I have to go through somebody else who doesn't have the intuition that I have. You know what I mean? So sales is a natural part of business, frankly.

Lisa Belisle:

And how do you feel that your undergraduate work in art has contributed to the work that you're doing currently?

Shannon Richards:

Oh, hugely. I'm so grateful that I took the all in approach back then. It was a big risk to go get a sculpture degree, but I think it's definitely fed the whole engine, getting there and learning and studying amongst colleagues who were driven in some of the same ways and focusing on how to make something. I typically ended up making something that was functional. So learning how things work and didn't work, it was a natural transition. And then building furniture and fixtures was a way to also practice adding value. If there's enough value and somebody's going to pay you for it, that's success. Right? I still go back to Syracuse and there are flower boxes I made for a restaurant. I still can see them there. They're made out of steel and they're still rusting away, but look cool. So when you start you say, oh, okay, that worked. Somebody's willing to pay you for it. You kind of follow that path.

Lisa Belisle:

What was it about sculpture that appealed to you?

Shannon Richards:

I think the idea that it's three-dimensional. I love drawing, but the idea that there's something substantive and dimensional and real at the end. I love paintings, don't get me wrong. I love to draw and paint. But how much space can I fit? And it felt to me like the pull was there.

Lisa Belisle:

What is your connection to Maine?

Shannon Richards:

I was born here. I was born at Maine Medical Center. I'm from the Castine down east area, but my parents were there. All of my family has been merchant mariners. My dad shipped out, my stepdad shipped out, my whole family went to Maine Maritime. And I think my pull to come back here after school was huge. Where can you be near the ocean, near the mountains? It's all the same things that everybody here who's living here, they all know the secret sauce, why we're here. Small population, safe, you don't have to lock your doors necessarily. So it was a no-brainer to come back here and set up shop.

Lisa Belisle:

So that sounds like you have more of an ocean going family, based on what you're saying. But the work you're doing now seems a little bit more land focused. Do you bring the water element into the work that you do now?

Shannon Richards:

Oh, that's such a nice question. Yes. We're just starting an island runners crew, to help the islanders. I mean, I think of Maine as an island in itself. There's an emergency, it's like, get a shovel, all hands on deck. This is Maine, and that's just a little bit of a graduated version of what's happening on islands. So I love being on the ocean. Caleb and I have an old wooden boat. It's a Lyman, I think it's a 68, 69. We're actually doing some work on it. Wooden boats need to be worked on all the time. So, going back to your earlier question of what are you doing that's fun, this is fun. We bought an old school in Lyman, Maine, which has nothing to do with the boat, but just a coincidence. And it's a 10,000 square foot masonry building that had been left empty for years and years. And we're turning it into studios. It has six acres. So we're trying to build basically an art enclave or a place for studios. We've already got some of the people who work with me, we have a plant division we just started, which is interior plant decor, and they have their studio there. And we've got our studio and we're starting to renovate and add studios for other artists. So that's kind of fun.

Lisa Belisle:

That's very fun. Right? Yes.

Shannon Richards:

Kind of forgot about that one.

Lisa Belisle:

I think it is interesting when you're newly investing in a different sort of business, because you've been in business for a very long time now, in many ways.

Shannon Richards:

Yes. 25 years, I'd say.

Lisa Belisle:

So this is just, again, the next iteration of what you've been doing. But the amount of time and effort and creativity that goes into that sometimes can cause you to feel like, oh, do I actually have any mental or emotional space for anything else? So what's great about what you're describing is that it's still technically part of the business, but it seems like it provides this additional layer of joy that you totally consider fun.

Shannon Richards:

Absolutely. It's so important. It's inspiring. It's so important to be like, okay, we're in this rat race. What are we doing with our life? Let's leave something behind that we're proud of. Like I always say, let's leave it a little better than we found it. And that's true. I think that's what art is for me. It's what makes it worth living for, basically.

Lisa Belisle:

Why a wooden boat?

Shannon Richards:

They're beautiful, they're absolutely divine. And it's a labor of love, right? Like the arts. It's a picnic boat. It's beautiful. I'll take you out on it. It's really quite lovely. And less money to acquire, more to maintain. But when you're passionate about wood and the materials, and when you look at it, it's stunning. So, no complaints.

Lisa Belisle:

Is this something that you had access to when you were growing up?

Shannon Richards:

Oh, yes. We were on the water all the time.

Lisa Belisle:

Particularly the wooden boats.

Shannon Richards:

Oh, no, I wasn't. My mom used to say, take you anywhere, Shannon. You'll find the most expensive thing in the room. I just have a natural orientation towards things that are of finer quality. So that's one of them. Can't help it.

Lisa Belisle:

I think my husband might say that about me at times, so I can relate to that. I don't think there's a problem.

Shannon Richards:

We may have that in common.

Lisa Belisle:

It's not like you're running around saying, I need to have all the stuff. It's like, if I'm going to invest in something, let's make it something nice. And something that will stay with us for a long time.

Shannon Richards:

That's right. Absolutely. That's a hundred percent how I feel. Don't need it all, but what I do have, I want it to be nice.

Lisa Belisle:

I agree with that.

Shannon Richards:

Yes.

Lisa Belisle:

So I know Caleb Johnson is your partner, and he's an architect. And I've actually interviewed him before. So what is it like to have a partner who is an architect, and you have your own design and art background in real estate, and how do you collaborate on things?

Shannon Richards:

We do. I mean, this is the school we're doing together. We have two households. It's not entirely blended because his kids are in Bedford schools. Mine are in Portland schools. But we have kind of figured it out in a way. And we go back and forth every week, on week off. And then in terms of work, we bought my office together. My company is buying us out now. We've got it all figured out. Some of his staff who needed places to sit, because he was outgrowing his space, are in my office. We just finished buying them a beautiful historic building in Portland. We closed last Friday, so they'll be transitioning out. So we support one another through these kind of adjacent activities. And it's transactional in some ways. We don't really collaborate at the office anymore. We did work together for a while, as you know, and that was really successful at building his company. But once that got to a certain point and we decided to be together in a romantic way, we separated. And that's where I started Hay Runner. So I think we just kind of figure it out as we go. We're very creative, artistic. We were at the museum last night for the winter bash, and I'm not sure if there were more people that spent more time in the gallery itself, really exploring the art that's there. That's something that really connects us.

Lisa Belisle:

And do you find that you learn from his architecture background?

Shannon Richards:

Oh, definitely. A hundred percent. Anytime we travel, he's so smart and he reads so much, and his experience and his talents, I think he's probably the most talented, no offense to all the other amazing architects, but I'm a huge fan of his work and his methodology, his draw to quality, his draw to the details. So I've learned endlessly from him. And business wise too, he is a very smart business person. So I like to think that I give him some of the softer skills, and I have the instincts that I was describing, but he's very well-read and he has great instincts too. I don't mean to say that he doesn't.

Lisa Belisle:

Well, that was going to be my next question. It sounds like in partnership, you both are contributing in pretty significant ways. So tell me what a softer skill is for you.

Shannon Richards:

Well, like the instincts. He would be the first to say, I noticed this thing. It feels like there's a hole. Something's missing, there's some information missing. And I'm willing to bet it's either A or B or C. We were just talking about this yesterday, and he was like, boy, I don't have that. He's like, you're right. And most of the time, I'm right. I'll predict these things. So the ability to predict, forecast based on intuition, I have. And I obviously study the numbers and I'm pretty data driven also, but usually there's a nuance there that I can bring to the conversation. That's helpful.

Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's interesting that you're talking about being data driven and you're kind of equating that with more of a numerical data. But I've been in a conversation recently with somebody who pointed out to me, you know, qualitative data is also data. So what you're describing is maybe more of a feeling, more of an intuition. It's maybe more qualitative than quantitative.

Shannon Richards:

It's still data. It's so true. When you collect qualitative data over years and years, you can tend to say, oh, I was right about that, then that's absolutely fundamental to success. I'd love to show you my spreadsheets though. I get right up in there.

Lisa Belisle:

Well, I think it's good to be able to speak both languages.

Shannon Richards:

Definitely. A hundred percent.

Lisa Belisle:

And I also think that one of my interviews a few months ago, there was a conversation about soft skills, and this idea that maybe traditionally qualitative information, softer skills, are looked down upon in some way. People would say, well, the numbers are what's important. But I actually think that if we could value what we're getting from lots of different places, then that doesn't make a soft skill any less valuable than, I guess I'll call it, a hard skill of numerical data gathering.

Shannon Richards:

Absolutely. And I think the data nerds would come to the table and say they would be like, well, I've got the data, but I really need somebody to help me understand some of the nuances. Anybody who's really expert understands what they don't know, that there's a nuance. And my mother is an intuitive, so I was raised in a very intuitively encouraging environment. So follow your intuition. She was the one that said, I said, I think I need to go to art school. I understood very young that success would only come from being creative. And she said, absolutely, you need to follow your intuition. That's what's going to lead you to success. So I agree. There's a nuance there, but I think a lot of people that we run across who are excelling or expert and successful, they understand that. Don't you agree? You probably don't get a lot of real stern, like, no, we've got to do it this one way, that are really pulling it off.

Lisa Belisle:

Well, my favorite thing to do is to be in a room full of people, each of whom understand what we're calling data from a really different place. To be in a room with somebody who's the finance person, and somebody who's the operations person, and somebody who's the human resources person. Because I think that when you can actually build on that collaboration and each person bringing something to the table, but everybody trying to also understand and value what the other person brings, that just leads to such rich experiences compared to if you just take one path that's dictated by one person.

Shannon Richards:

Oh, completely. And that's the nuance of leadership, good leadership these days, is saying, look, I've got our heading. I sit around in the room with every person you just said, we have an ops meeting once a week, and I have those people at the table with me, and I might be driving the boat, but it's not on my own. And there has to be collective agreement and influence, and you have to be open to that. And that's what I think is really successful.

Lisa Belisle:

Well, as you're talking about your mother, I'm thinking about my mother who was a math teacher for many years, in math and science, but she also comes from this Irish background, and it's a very intuitive group of individuals. And my mom of course watches or listens to Radio Maine every week. So mom, I'm sorry to out you in front of everybody, tell everybody how intuitive you are, but for me it is just fascinating. Because I think there's the side of her that is very math and organized and straightforward, but then there's this interesting kind of mystical Mother Mary thing that's going on that I just love about her.

Shannon Richards:

Totally. And we are Irish American. My mother is Mary, her name's Mary.

Lisa Belisle:

See, we've got the Mother Mary thing.

Shannon Richards:

Intuition, it's happening. I think there's this old, well, female encouraging to heal. And that's a big part of our lives. I'm a mother, there's a lot there. You can't explain. You just know.

Lisa Belisle:

That is true. And what I also like about these days is understanding that what we've traditionally associated with feminine energy is something that actually is in anyone of any kind of self-described orientation. So we've got the masculine and the feminine, it's very Chinese medicine, it's yin and yang. And we all have aspects of all of this.

Shannon Richards:

Completely.

Lisa Belisle:

So we don't have to feel locked in anymore. Well, if I'm a man, I have to be a finance man. Or if I'm a woman, then I have to do more.

Shannon Richards:

Or men, be a stay at home. And also the value of being a great stay-at-home mom, it's just as valuable. You are stewarding our future generations. And then if you're somebody like me who's, I feel fulfilled working and I have these great kids who I've luckily always had really great nannies to help, and my family is always all in. I have a huge family. So I just think if you're going to do something, give it everything you've got. I'm a woman in design and construction. There are a lot of us around nowadays, but it's not traditional. A lot of times I'm the only person of my gender at the table, coming up the ranks. It's changing now though.

Lisa Belisle:

Yes. The same is true in medicine.

Shannon Richards:

Yes.

Lisa Belisle:

The further along I go in medical leadership, the fewer and fewer there are of us who have a specific chromosome designation. So I'm looking around and there are many wonderful leaders that I work with who happen to be female, but they're not necessarily, they haven't come through the medical profession. So it is interesting. And it is changing. So I've found it to be an interesting foot in both camps, really, where I came from and my training and my experience and where we are now. They're very different.

Shannon Richards:

Yep. Agreed.

Lisa Belisle:

And the people who are coming along now, they don't really understand what was. And the people that came through before, sometimes it's easy to feel a little, I don't want to say disrespected exactly, but maybe misunderstood by people who are coming along now.

Shannon Richards:

Yes. Well, and that's probably generational too, right? I was talking with Danielle Betts, do you know her from Knickerbocker? We were talking the other day and she was saying the same thing, when she was coming up the ranks she really was mentored by a colleague who was a little bit further along. And I'm forgetting her name, I've met her before, from SMRT. You might know her too. But it's just really great to see that there is this generational hand down of the baton. Like, I know what you're probably going through. Maybe it's a little different. Danielle's maybe a little bit older than me, but not much. But she's like, hey, we got together the other day and she was like, try this. Have you thought of this? Let's get back together, keep it on the regular. So that kind of support is also nice when it comes from people who have kind of a little bit of an understanding, a little different, but there's some overlap.

Lisa Belisle:

It's important. Tell me why the name Hay Runner.

Shannon Richards:

Hay Runner. Good question. So I was inspired reading a biography about Cornelius Vanderbilt. And he started out, it was inspiring to me, and I understand along the way he was this old white guy and it was a man's world and blah, blah, blah, but you have to find inspiration where you can. He started out running hay in little perrier boats from Staten Island to Manhattan Island during the War of 1812. And he was known for being this person who would show up no matter what, if it was shrapnel or weather. And the horses always ate the hay. He was running hay to feed the horses that were in the war. And they say that the cavalry is what won the war, because they always had food. They could always count on him. And his parents were Dutch farmers. They wanted him to be a Dutch farmer at a fourth grade education. And he was like, no, I've got to follow my instincts. And he started going after steam shipping. He just basically started doing these things that he was driven to do. And he started bringing together and consolidating these different industries that needed to be consolidated. And then it was not many years later, he owned one dollar for every twenty dollars in the United States of America. He was driven. And there are some things he did wrong along the way that I don't want to repeat, but it was inspiring to me at the time that I was starting this.

Lisa Belisle:

Well, it sounds like his diversity of interest is not that dissimilar to the diversity of interest that you're weaving together.

Shannon Richards:

And he's an islander, which I can relate to. And he was close with his mom. There's all kinds of little things in there I thought were cool.

Lisa Belisle:

Well, I've enjoyed catching up with you and learning about where you are now today, since you and I have rotated in the same circles for many years. Seeing what each other is up to has been very interesting. And I appreciate you taking the time and talking today.

Shannon Richards:

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I know it's been a pandemic. It's nice to see you again.

Lisa Belisle:

Too long. It's been a pandemic. We used to see each other all the time. And now it's like you don't see anybody.

Shannon Richards:

Exactly.

Lisa Belisle:

We're all emerging once again.

Shannon Richards:

So, thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

Lisa Belisle:

Thank you. I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle and you have been listening to or watching Radio Maine. And today I've been speaking with the owner and founder of Hay Runner, Shannon Richards. Thanks for joining us.